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Topic: Essential vinyl hardware upgrade (Read 9659 times) previous topic - next topic
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Essential vinyl hardware upgrade

I've been buying vinyl for the past year and wanted to wait to buy a decent turntable till I've had a good amount of vinyl in my collection. I know almost everything in my genre about the records itself, who masters 'em, distributes 'em, presses 'em, etc. So I've used my dads old turntable for the time being, this is my current set-up:

Old set-up
Turntable: Dual 505-2 Belt Drive
Cartridge: Ortofon DN 165 E
Pre-amp: An old Pioneer stereo, but still has stripped wire outputs so it's screaming for an upgrade
Speakers: Pair of speakers that came with the Pioneer stereo

I'm a huge fan of bass music so after reading a lot of reviews on the world wide web, I've came up with this set-up:

New set-up
Turntable: Rega RP6
Cartridge: Ortofon M2 Black
Pre-amp: The Era Gold V MM Sensitivity Phono Stage OR Dynavector P75 MKIII Phono Preamp
Monitors: 2x KRK Rokit 8 G2 (Already have these but can't connect em to the Pioneer stereo)
External Audiocard: Yamaha Audiogram 3 (Already in hand aswell)

The reason I post here is that I'm looking for a bit of guidance and for people with experience with these items. Also, the Graham Slee or Dynavector?
I'm very motivated to learn more about the hardware and working of turntables, it's the most beautiful platform out there that may not get lost. I'm going through the Vinyl Guide as we speak, but feel free to share anything that can contribute for a vinylhead in the making.

Cheers,
StrongRoot

Essential vinyl hardware upgrade

Reply #1 –
I have had a turntable of one kind or another in regular use for nearly 50 years.

This website is an excellent resource for all things vinyl.

Vinyl Engine

Since you have already decided on your playback system I will not comment except to say I use something similar. Active monitors and an audio interface. Good.

You are massively over specifying your proposed phono pre-amp. Monstrously even. You could spend 10% or less of your proposed budget and get similar results. Spend the money you save on better  speakers, DSP or room correction. Perhaps even a more fully featured interface., although this will be unlikely to change the perceived sound quality by much. If at all. 

Turntable. Your existing Dual was regarded as pretty good in it's day. The big weakness, if I recall correctly, was the cartridge mount which easy becomes loose. Check that and the speed accuracy. You might be able to save some more money even if you do have to find a new belt. Although I now prefer direct drives. Much more reliable and require less maintainence. That said Rega have always enjoyed a good reputation although for the life of me I don't really understand why.

Cartridge.  This tends to be personal. People often stick to a preferred brand. I like Audio Technica or Stanton but I know Ortofon are popular as well and give excellent results. Again try not to overspend. Difference on spending more cash are much smaller than you might expect and you might be tempted to not replace a worn stylus as often as you should if you get the most expensive model you can afford. Set up is vital. The vinyl engine site I mentioned earlier is very helpful in this regard.

This site, excellent as it is in almost every other respect, is characterised by an almost pathological hatred of anything vinyl related. So be prepared for negative comments. Don't be put off. A system such as you can easily afford, well set up and playing records in perfect condition will give immense pleasure and won't sound much worse than a digital system when the music is actually playing. You might not even be able to tell the difference easily.

Essential vinyl hardware upgrade

Reply #2 –
I thought the second-smartest move I ever made with my vinyl setup was to ditch the Rega/Linn/SOTA/Oracle/et al turntables and get a Technics SL1200 Mk II. For years I thought some performers sang a bit flat but come to find out that a proper quartz-locked transport was all they needed 

Cartridge: My last one was a Denon DL103 which I got new for something like $200. I think it was probably not an ideal match for the stock Technics arm being a bit heavy and low-compliance, but I added mass to the arm and experimented with different tracking forces until even my most heavily-modulated records played nicely without undue distortion and called it good.

Essential vinyl hardware upgrade

Reply #3 –
I went from a Dual 505-4 to a NAD 533 (same as a Rega P2), which I then modified a little as and when funds permitted.

The cartridge is a Rega, as I like the fit'n'forget 3-point mounting.

Phono stage is a Musical Fidelity V-LPS Mk.II. Digitising is done with a Terratec iVinyl.

All very satisfying to listen to.

Essential vinyl hardware upgrade

Reply #4 –
I think you need to diagnose what's wrong with your existing setup when considering upgrades.

If there's nothing wrong with your turntable, a new one is unlikely to give you better sound quality.

A different cartridge may sound different and if your stylus is worn a new cartridge is often about the same price as a replacement stylus.    At over $100 USD or so, you can get a good cartridge and you may actually prefer a lower price cartridge to a higher priced one in a blind listening test.

Personally, I wouldn't spend more than the price of Shure's best cartridge.  The weak link and the biggest source of sound variation is the record itself and for me it's not worth spending lots of money in the endless pursuit of perfection.  (Especially when you can get "digital perfection" for much lower cost.)

You could build a good phono preamp with about $25 of electronics.    Nice packaging and small quantity manufacturing & distribution can push up the cost & price quite a bit.  And of course, a high price makes it more desirable to audiophiles!   

New/different speakers will probably make the biggest difference.    I don't know anything about your old speakers, but the Rokits may be an improvement. 

Basic speaker technology hasn't changed that much.  Most speakers are still 2-way or 3-way systems with drivers that have a magnet and a voice coil, in either a sealed or ported cabinet.  The modern "style" is smaller speakers with a separate subwoofer, but they are still built with the same basic technology.    Computer modeling of the Thiele/Small parameters has made it easier to predict performance of ported designs, but there are some very-good older designs.    There are some advantages to active monitors which have become standard in pro and home studios.  But again, there are some very good passive speaker systems.

I haven't heard the Rokits but you might consider a "matching" subwoofer.    If you want to feel the deep bass, you might not get that with 8-inch woofers.

Essential vinyl hardware upgrade

Reply #5 –
At least your old set up wasn't so bad that you've damaged your records.

I don't know what country you're in, but at UK prices it's a £2000+ source into £500 speakers. If you're a huge fan of bass music, the way that bass interacts with your room will be one of the biggest effects. Those speakers may not be the right choice at all. You need to try them in your room. One benefit of subs (not the crappy sucked-out Bose kind of solution, but one or two properly integrated subs) is that you can put the bass source in a location that works well in your room for your listening position - which often is NOT the same place that you want the regular speakers for good stereo reproduction and imaging.

The way the stylus tracks your records will be significant. The phono pre-amp will be far less significant. You need to budget to replace the stylus when it's worn out or damaged. You need the right stand and isolation for the turntable, and (if you stick with bookshelf speakers) the speakers. I would also allow for decent headphones when you can't crank up the speakers.

Cheers,
David.

Essential vinyl hardware upgrade

Reply #6 –
Quote from: RonaldDumsfeld on
Cartridge.  This tends to be personal. People often stick to a preferred brand. I like Audio Technica or Stanton but I know Ortofon are popular as well and give excellent results. Again try not to overspend. Difference on spending more cash are much smaller than you might expect and you might be tempted to not replace a worn stylus as often as you should if you get the most expensive model you can afford. Set up is vital. The vinyl engine site I mentioned earlier is very helpful in this regard.

I tried a many <$50 cartridges and always was annoyed by inner groove distortion and it wasn't "solved" until I bought a elliptical stylus costing ~$150. That was a Audio-Technica AT440ML and it was a huge difference. I just want the thread starter to know that.

Essential vinyl hardware upgrade

Reply #7 –
Good point. 

I keep an AT 440MLa for 'best'. Mainly when doing rips to digital. So they all sound more or less the same. For everyday use I leave an AT 120E mounted. It takes seconds to switch using a Technics type headshell mount.

At today's prices and in my region the 440MLa costs £155, replacement stylus £135. The AT 120E costs £100, replacement stylus £75.

I'd have no reservations about recommending a £35 AT 95E for 'sandpit' use or if one was on a very tight budget. They all have elliptical stylii. Although I actually keep a pair of  Stanton 500 (same price) in spare headshells for when I want to mix or if mates come round (& drink).

Essential vinyl hardware upgrade

Reply #8 –
Thanks all for your replies, I changed my mind about buying a new TT, instead just get this Dual 505-2 back up and running. Was thinking about buying a fully featured inferface like RonaldDumsfeld mentioned. So I can finally be able to connect my TT to these KRKs. That with a new cartridge, what about an Ortofon 20/30 or 520/530?

Cheers,
StrongRoot

Essential vinyl hardware upgrade

Reply #9 –
Quote from: StrongRoot on
I've been buying vinyl for the past year and wanted to wait to buy a decent turntable till I've had a good amount of vinyl in my collection. I know almost everything in my genre about the records itself, who masters 'em, distributes 'em, presses 'em, etc. So I've used my dads old turntable for the time being, this is my current set-up:

Old set-up
Turntable: Dual 505-2 Belt Drive
Cartridge: Ortofon DN 165 E
Pre-amp: An old Pioneer stereo, but still has stripped wire outputs so it's screaming for an upgrade
Speakers: Pair of speakers that came with the Pioneer stereo

I'm a huge fan of bass music so after reading a lot of reviews on the world wide web, I've came up with this set-up:

New set-up
Turntable: Rega RP6
Cartridge: Ortofon M2 Black
Pre-amp: The Era Gold V MM Sensitivity Phono Stage OR Dynavector P75 MKIII Phono Preamp
Monitors: 2x KRK Rokit 8 G2 (Already have these but can't connect em to the Pioneer stereo)
External Audiocard: Yamaha Audiogram 3 (Already in hand aswell)

The reason I post here is that I'm looking for a bit of guidance and for people with experience with these items. Also, the Graham Slee or Dynavector?
I'm very motivated to learn more about the hardware and working of turntables, it's the most beautiful platform out there that may not get lost. I'm going through the Vinyl Guide as we speak, but feel free to share anything that can contribute for a vinylhead in the making.

Cheers,
StrongRoot

The single most important thing when setting up a record deck;

Get the platter perfectly level.

If it's a suspended design, get the plinth level and then adjust the suspension to get the sub-chassis, and hence the platter level also.

For a solid deck like a Rega or Project, the platform the deck rests on has to be adjusted.

Can't be emphasised enough - a platter which is tilted will make the bearing noisy, and will prematurely wear it out, and it also interferes with tracking.

Level it!!