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Topic: Converting high definition FLAC files (Read 20227 times) previous topic - next topic
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Converting high definition FLAC files

Forgive any rule I break, or discussions I may be repeating.  New member here.

I recently purchased some Rush boxed sets from HDtracks as 24/96 FLAC files.  On my PC at home, they sounds pretty amazing in foobar2000.  But at 15GB for all the files, they're way too big to carry around on my phone, and too big to stream.

So, the need comes to convert them to something lossy.

So, I fired up foobar2000, and converted them to LAME V0.  I noticed the files were now 48000 Hz, instead of 96000 Hz.

I then converted the FLAC to a -q10 ogg vorbis file (~500kbps).  foobar2000 claims this file is 96000 Hz.

Went on to convert to AAC and had foobar throw an error.

Though I would never use it, I'm debating trying to make a WMA, just to hear what it would sound like.

Though I understand the end result for me would be subjective to what my ears hear in my headphones, it sounds like the least amount of data loss, and therefore, the format most likely to give me the closest match to the original FLAC is going to be the -q10 Ogg Vorbis file.

Is there a preferred format to convert high definition FLAC files to?

And, what's the better choice for sound quality:

1. A 24/192 FLAC ripped to -Q10 Ogg Vorbis
2. 16/48 FLAC file

Both files are around the same size.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #1 –
You should convert  to flac 16/48. The files will be 3x-4x smaller, and while the conversion from 24/96 to 16/48 is technically lossy, the difference has never been shown to be audible in ordinary music.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #2 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
Though I understand the end result for me would be subjective to what my ears hear in my headphones, it sounds like the least amount of data loss, and therefore, the format most likely to give me the closest match to the original FLAC is going to be the -q10 Ogg Vorbis file.


I'm not up to date with which lossy formats are best, but remember that less data does not necessarily mean lower audio quality (to our human ears, at least).
Foobar has a really good ABX plugin, you might want to give it a try, see if you can tell a difference between all the formats you mentioned.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #4 –
Quote from: andrew_berge on
Quote from: apastuszak on
Though I understand the end result for me would be subjective to what my ears hear in my headphones, it sounds like the least amount of data loss, and therefore, the format most likely to give me the closest match to the original FLAC is going to be the -q10 Ogg Vorbis file.


I'm not up to date with which lossy formats are best, but remember that less data does not necessarily mean lower audio quality (to our human ears, at least).
Foobar has a really good ABX plugin, you might want to give it a try, see if you can tell a difference between all the formats you mentioned.


I've just spent the last 15 minutes playing with the abx plugin.  I've compared the 24/192 test file I have against a 16/48 FLAC, as well as an ogg, mp3, and m4a file.  The 24/192 FLAC seems to win hand ds down.
 

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #6 –
Quote from: andrew_berge on
Quote from: apastuszak on
Though I understand the end result for me would be subjective to what my ears hear in my headphones, it sounds like the least amount of data loss, and therefore, the format most likely to give me the closest match to the original FLAC is going to be the -q10 Ogg Vorbis file.


I'm not up to date with which lossy formats are best, but remember that less data does not necessarily mean lower audio quality (to our human ears, at least).
Foobar has a really good ABX plugin, you might want to give it a try, see if you can tell a difference between all the formats you mentioned.


Well, that's quite the interesting read.

I wonder if I find the high definition FLAC files superior, because they were perhaps digitally remastered, compared to the older FLACs I have.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #7 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
I wonder if I find the high definition FLAC files superior, because they were perhaps digitally remastered, compared to the older FLACs I have.

If you are telling us that you are comparing different versions then of course they can sound different.

Take your 24/96 files and convert them to the other formats, then try to abx them.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #8 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
I wonder if I find the high definition FLAC files superior, because they were perhaps digitally remastered, compared to the older FLACs I have.


Does that mean your 48/16 flacs you compared with in ABX are not resampled versions of your 192/24 flacs, but totally different files from different sources and production chain?

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #9 –
Quote from: phofman on
Quote from: apastuszak on
I wonder if I find the high definition FLAC files superior, because they were perhaps digitally remastered, compared to the older FLACs I have.


Does that mean your 48/16 flacs you compared with in ABX are not resampled versions of your 192/24 flacs, but totally different files from different sources and production chain?


Well, since hdtracks does not offer 48/16 FLACs of the specific track in question, I had to make them myself from CDs available to me.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #10 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
Well, since hdtracks does not offer 48/16 FLACs of the specific track in question, I had to make them myself from CDs available to me.

The CDs are mastered differently, which makes the comparison unfair. You need to make the 48/16 FLAC by resampling the 96/24 FLAC.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Octocontrabass on
Quote from: apastuszak on
Well, since hdtracks does not offer 48/16 FLACs of the specific track in question, I had to make them myself from CDs available to me.

The CDs are mastered differently, which makes the comparison unfair. You need to make the 48/16 FLAC by resampling the 96/24 FLAC.


I managed to make a 96/16 FLAC.  Still working on getting it down to 48.  I may need to use something besides foobar to do the conversion.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #12 –
Converting Hi-Res to 16/48
These instructions are for Windows; all software is free

1. Do a "Full" installation of foobar2000 and its Encoder Pack

2. Open foobar2000 "File" > "Preferences" - "Components" and drop the SoX Resampler installation zip file on the open window; click "Apply" and restart when prompted

3. Drag your hi-res files to foobar2000 main window

4. Configure your file conversion:

- select all music files in foobar2000
- right-click and select "Convert" > "..."
- "Output Format": Format: FLAC, level 6; Output: 16-bit; Dither: always
- "Destination": Output folder: ask later. Output type: tracks into individual files. File name pattern: /%artist%/%album%/%filename%
- "Processing": Resampler (SoX): configure Resampler for 48000 "Target Sample Rate"
- "Other": When finished: ReplayGain-scan output files as albums. Optionally, select "Transfer attached pictures" if your files have embedded artwork.  If you have a cover art JPG in the folder, put *.JPG in the box labelled "Copy other files..."
* IMPORTANT - Save this configuration as "Hi-Res To 16/48" preset so you can easily use it again
- Press "Convert" -- BE SURE TO SPECIFY AN OUTPUT FOLDER DIFFERENT FROM WHERE THE ORIGINAL FILES ARE LOCATED

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #13 –
Well, I used SOX to make it a 48/16 FLAC, and as you can see, I could not tell a difference between the two files:

foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.3.3
2014/07/18 11:29:01

File A: C:\Users\Andy\Desktop\new.flac
File B: C:\Users\Andy\Desktop\01-In The Air Tonight.flac

11:29:01 : Test started.
11:37:18 : 00/01  100.0%
11:37:26 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 0/1 (100.0%)

I'll play around with some of the lossy formats and see what my ears tell me.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Apesbrain on
Converting Hi-Res to 16/48
These instructions are for Windows; all software is free

1. Do a "Full" installation of foobar2000 and its Encoder Pack

2. Open foobar2000 "File" > "Preferences" - "Components" and drop the SoX Resampler installation zip file on the open window; click "Apply" and restart when prompted

3. Drag your hi-res files to foobar2000 main window

4. Configure your file conversion:

- select all music files in foobar2000
- right-click and select "Convert" > "..."
- "Output Format": Format: FLAC, level 6; Output: 16-bit; Dither: always
- "Destination": Output folder: ask later. Output type: tracks into individual files. File name pattern: /%artist%/%album%/%filename%
- "Processing": Resampler (SoX): configure Resampler for 48000 "Target Sample Rate"
- "Other": When finished: ReplayGain-scan output files as albums. Optionally, select "Transfer attached pictures" if your files have embedded artwork.  If you have a cover art JPG in the folder, put *.JPG in the box labelled "Copy other files..."
* IMPORTANT - Save this configuration as "Hi-Res To 16/48" preset so you can easily use it again
- Press "Convert" -- BE SURE TO SPECIFY AN OUTPUT FOLDER DIFFERENT FROM WHERE THE ORIGINAL FILES ARE LOCATED

You should be able to do it in Audacity too, but with the dithering and other options, that would also introduce loads of variables.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #15 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
I'll play around with some of the lossy formats and see what my ears tell me.

Here is foobar2000 converter configuration if you want to try AAC.  I'd suggest TVBR 100 (below) or 80.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #17 –
Quote
How exactly does abx decide if I am guessing?


You don't know which is which, but the ABX plugin does, and it secretly keeps score of how many comparisons you get correct. The more often you got them correct, the higher the likelihood that you can really tell them apart, and thus the lower the probability that you were guessing.

That 100% in your results is 100% guessing because you only had 1 try. You'll need to do at least 10 to have a semblance of certainty.

If you're interested, I recommend trying the ABX tool with two completely different songs, so that you learn what a positive result looks like.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #18 –
For portability and compatibility I use LAME. Did you find any problems with LAME V0? The target listening device is your phone, I doubt you could hear the difference in such listening conditions. But if you could, would it be big enough to merit using a larger file?

Personally I use LAME V4 for my phone. and FLAC on my PC. I think when I did my ABX, I could tell the difference on just a few songs. But I decided the difference doesn't really make the MP3 sound unacceptable.

The program I use to do the conversion is LameDropXPd which you can find here:
http://www.rarewares.org/mp3-lamedrop.php

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #19 –
Once you get the hang of doing good conversions and getting a reliable ABX result, my challenge to you would be to try to ABX your "HD" tracks against OGG Vorbis -q4 files (~128kbps). Then try to ABX against even lower q levels. I bet you'll be surprised how low that bit rate can go. Then you can revel in the amount of lossy yet transparent music you can now pack into the storage on your mobile devices.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #20 –
Thank you everyone for your advice and tips!

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #21 –
Quote
Is there a preferred format to convert high definition FLAC files to?


You shouldn't need to ABX anything if you just came here for to ask that question (though it's quite common that threads here turns to ABX and TOS#8 threads).

Quote
they're way too big to carry around on my phone, and too big to stream.


Which formats your ? phone and streaming system supports and how big storage your phone has for audio files?


MP3 is widely supported format and good enough for portable use ... even at 192kbps (probaby your phone output/headphones are not good and therefore you prefer to use EQ because of that).
WMAPro (lossy) supports 'resolutions' up to 24-bit/96kHz so that could be something you could try for your streaming system (... dunno if foobar2000 supports this format).

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Juha on
Quote
Is there a preferred format to convert high definition FLAC files to?


You shouldn't need to ABX anything if you just came here for to ask that question (though it's quite common that threads here turns to ABX and TOS#8 threads).

Quote
they're way too big to carry around on my phone, and too big to stream.


Which formats your ? phone and streaming system supports and how big storage your phone has for audio files?


MP3 is widely supported format and good enough for portable use ... even at 192kbps (probaby your phone output/headphones are not good and therefore you prefer to use EQ because of that).
WMAPro (lossy) supports 'resolutions' up to 24-bit/96kHz so that could be something you could try for your streaming system (... dunno if foobar2000 supports this format).


Right now, I am using Madsonic and Ampache to stream to my phone.

Converting high definition FLAC files

Reply #23 –
I used SOX (with similar settings as recommended above) to convert a couple of "HD" albums to 16/44.1. I was going to ABX them, but then I remembered I have a 24/48 DSP crossover in my signal chain, so why bother :-P

Lesson to be learned: Make sure your entire playback chain can actually handle "HD" audio beforehand. Otherwise you will definitely just be wasting hard drive space.

(I did ABX later with a direct connection. I failed completely at telling the originals from the downsamples)