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Topic: [OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach (Read 6493 times) previous topic - next topic
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[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

I dont' know much about the technical specs of the discussion, but... for me, as long as Apple doesn't sell flawless music, there's no relevance to this news, since iTunes is not a good ripper for most people out there (windows users).

I have tested ripping the same CDs with iTunes, EAC and CDex, on a Windows PC. I'm not gonna talk about audioquality, because I can't prove it's better on one or the others, but I have actual proof that iTunes produces more errors during the rip and does not identify or correct minor flaws, like scratches. On the other hand, both EAC and CDex did correct these flaws. I not just talking about badly scratched CDs. I tested this in many CDs in different conservation states.

Again, I haven't tested iTunes on a Mac, so I can't say if thoes problems persist in that ecosystem.

What I mean is: why use a lossless format if the actual rip is flawed?

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #1 –
Quote from: bsiffredi on
...since iTunes is not a good ripper for most people out there (windows users).


That's extremely subjective. I've never heard an error from an iTunes rip. Did you turn the error correction on in the settings?

Saying that iTunes is not a good ripper for most people is like saying most people would come to a forum like this for ripping advice. You and I may use secure ripping applications, but I don't think we are or speak for the majority.

I have ripped CDs in the past to ALAC using iTunes on both Mac and Windows. I've never heard any audible errors and, I submit, neither will the "average consumer."
The Loudness War is over. Now it's a hopeless occupation.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #2 –
iTunes will not report an error if it encounters one, unless the disc is so badly damaged the CD drive returns no data.

So with unrecoverable scratches you are getting interpolated data + no messages from the ripper that it is so.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #3 –
Quote from: saratoga on
To be clear, you are aware that its been open source for years, and that people already have compiled a binary usable with EAC or any other CD-ripper, right?


Did you read this thread at all?  It was reverse engineered by 3rd parties.  It was not an official open source from Apple...
JXL

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #4 –
Quote from: bsiffredi on
I dont' know much about the technical specs of the discussion, but... for me, as long as Apple doesn't sell flawless music, there's no relevance to this news...


Why?  Should everything Apple does regarding their audio encoders and jukebox software focus around the iTunes Store?  That's like saying the new 64-bit built of FLAC is useless because there are only a couple of legal stores selling FLAC files online.  Hence any FLAC updates are meaningless because I can't buy the majority of music out there in FLAC.  Leave it to some people who take something positive and crap all over it.  I am not saying you have to support the iTunes Store.  You can continue to buy all of the CDs you want.  I just fail to see why this would be irrelevant news simply because it doesn't have anything to do with the iTunes Store.  What's next?  Are you going to complain about a small QuickTime update because it doesn't do anything in regards to Apple selling ALAC content?

Quote from: bsiffredi on
...since iTunes is not a good ripper for most people out there (windows users).


That actually goes against common practice and knowledge.  In fact, the secure rippers out there often are required for a large portion of CD ripping when the source discs are in good, working condition.  That is even if iTunes comes across an error that results in something easily audible.  The majority of people who buy an iDevice download iTunes and just start ripping their CDs.  They don't understand secure ripping or even want to learn about other programs.  They just want their audio and often don't even change the default CD ripping settings in iTunes.  I know of many, many, many people who complained that their libraries were doubling in size despite ripping only a few CDs after Apple changed the default ripping settings to 256kbps AAC from 128kbps AAC.  Either way, iTunes is actually a good enough ripper for the majority of iDevice consumers out there (who makeup the majority of the DAP and tablet markets).  You may not like it and that is fine.  I don't even use iTunes to rip my CDs on my Mac (I have XLD for that) but that doesn't stop it from being a bad CD ripper for the average consumer.  I would make the same argument for a large portion of jukebox applications out there whether they are iTunes, Windows Media Player, the Zune PC software, etc.  Good enough for you does not translate to good enough for the majority population.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #5 –
Quote from: saratoga on
Quote from: Xenion on
Since it's opensource now, someone might compile a binary that is useable with EAC or any other CD-ripper. For people who share lossless audiolibraries on heterogeneous networks alac might be a good choice since mac users often prefer itunes (and alac is the only lossless format itunes can deal with)


To be clear, you are aware that its been open source for years, and that people already have compiled a binary usable with EAC or any other CD-ripper, right?


hm no. apple opened the source in october 2011. that's also what this thread is about.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #6 –
Ah so you are a little confused.  Apple released an open source encoder in October 2011, but its not the first one.  You've been able to use ALAC in EAC for literally years now using a previous open source encoder.  Check out the HA wiki entry, it explains a little more:

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...rison#ALAC_pros

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #7 –
You are confused.

That is FFMPEG reverse engineered version.

From the wiki: "Open source (encoding and decoding via FFmpeg and CUETools, decoding only via a standalone decoder)".

This is the first ever apple released open source alac encoder.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #8 –
Well, you said:

Quote from: saratoga on
To be clear, you are aware that its been open source for years, and that people already have compiled a binary usable with EAC or any other CD-ripper, right?


If english doesn't fails me, you mean that we "should be aware that" the Apple's ALAC encoder, the one we are talking about, has "been open source for years, and that people already have compiled a binary usable with EAC or any other CD-ripper, right?".

That is not correct.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #9 –
Quote from: kwanbis on
With that you say that we "should be aware that" the Apple's ALAC encoder,


To be clear, I never said that, and if you think I did you are mistaken.  Go back and reread the thread

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #10 –
Quote from: saratoga on
To be clear, I never said that, and if you think I did you are mistaken.  Go back and reread the thread


Well, english is not my mother language, and this is already very off topic, but, whatever, you did:


Quote from: saratoga on
To be clear, you are aware that ITS been open source for years, and that people already have compiled a binary usable with EAC or any other CD-ripper, right?


ITS = Apple's ALAC encoder, the thing we have been talking about.

Maybe you meant to say that there was an open source encoder, but you said that apple's encode has been open source for years.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #11 –
Quote from: kwanbis on
ITS = Apple's ALAC encoder, the thing we have been talking about.


As I said before, you are mistaken

Now seeing as this is a pointless word game that seems to be designed for you to post as much as possible without admitting that I'm correct, perhaps you could drop it already?

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #12 –
Quote from: saratoga on
Now seeing as this is a pointless word game that seems to be designed for you to post as much as possible without admitting that I'm correct, perhaps you could drop it already?

So, what was ITS then, when you are posting on APPLE releasing an open source encoder?

At least another user interpreted you where talking about APPLE's encoder.

But is ok, nothing wrong with a simple mistake.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #13 –
Could the mothers of saratoga and kwanbis please pick up their sons at the kids activity center?

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #14 –
Quote from: googlebot on
Could the mothers of saratoga and kwanbis please pick up their sons at the kids activity center?


lol

all I tried to do was say that we've had a link on our wiki explaining how to use EAC with ALAC for ages.  The rest I don't even know what happened.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #15 –
Quote from: googlebot on
Could the mothers of saratoga and kwanbis please pick up their sons at the kids activity center?

Sorry dad  All cool saratoga

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Engelsstaub on
Quote from: bsiffredi on
...since iTunes is not a good ripper for most people out there (windows users).


That's extremely subjective. I've never heard an error from an iTunes rip. Did you turn the error correction on in the settings?

Saying that iTunes is not a good ripper for most people is like saying most people would come to a forum like this for ripping advice. You and I may use secure ripping applications, but I don't think we are or speak for the majority.

I have ripped CDs in the past to ALAC using iTunes on both Mac and Windows. I've never heard any audible errors and, I submit, neither will the "average consumer."
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I did use the error correction too, and it didn't make any difference. Obviously, since most people (average consumer) listen to mp3s anyway, they probably won't be concerned with that, but we are talking about lossless formats, so I think it makes a big difference for us, right?

Quote from: kornchild2002 on
db1989 invites the reader to read this gigantic post in its original place rather than its unnecessary repetition here.

Ok, chill out. I get you like Apple. I didn't intend to 'crap all over it'.

What I mean is this: most people who use FLAC and all the people who use ALAC rip their cds to get those lossless files, since there's few artists selling FLAC and virtually no one sells ALAC. Since these people are not the average consumer (for whom mp3 is just fine), they are probably concerned with quality. If you agree, you'll understand that the quality of the rip is very important in this case. So, being that iTunes is not a really secure ripper (at least running on a Windows PC), to use this format a dude very concerned with sound quality (like me) would have to rip the CD in EAC, in WAV, and than convert it to ALAC in the iTunes. It's a boring procedure. So, since Apple doesn't show a lot of concern towards improving the quality of their ripper (at least as far as I know), the main importance of this info about ALAC being 'open' is the possibility that they will sell it.

I don't buy mp3, or any other lossy format, but I would consider buying music online in flawless format. For me, it would be worth the buck.

When I say good for most people, I mean good for Windows PC users, which still holds the largest share in the computer market. I do believe most people interested in flawless music are also Windows PC users, just because most computers out there aren't Macs.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #17 –
Quote from: bsiffredi link=msg=774806 date=
If you agree, you'll understand that the quality of the rip is very important in this case. So, being that iTunes is not a really secure ripper (at least running on a Windows PC), to use this format a dude very concerned with sound quality (like me) would have to rip the CD in EAC, in WAV, and than convert it to ALAC in the iTunes. It's a boring procedure. So, since Apple doesn't show a lot of concern towards improving the quality of their ripper (at least as far as I know), the main importance of this info about ALAC being 'open' is the possibility that they will sell it.

I tend to think that people so concerned with their music quality, are the ones that took best care of their CDs, so, they shouldn't have that much trouble with ripping.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #18 –
Quote from: bsiffredi link=msg=774806 date=
So, being that iTunes is not a really secure ripper (at least running on a Windows PC), to use this format a dude very concerned with sound quality (like me) would have to rip the CD in EAC, in WAV, and than convert it to ALAC in the iTunes.


I am sorry but anyone with the knowledge of this website would know that both EAC and dBpowerAMP have been able to rip CDs to ALAC files for quite a bit of time now.  The whole EAC CD rip to WAV to ALAC in iTunes is a long method and you know that there are other options out there.  The only difference now is that someone can make an ALAC encoder and have it work with EAC.  So you should be ecstatic for this announcement since you will no longer have to go through EAC to rip WAV files only to encode them in iTunes as ALAC (even though we both know that you improperly used that example).

Again, I don't see why this having nothing to do with the iTunes Store means it is irrelevant.  You painted yourself in a corner with your comments by referring to "most people," then saying they aren't the majority market, and then saying "most people" again to mean a large portion of the PC market.  Then you further state that this news update is meaningless only to provide an example of how it will actually be beneficial.  It's alright if you don't support Apple, just don't try to makeup some excuse by running around in circles making nonsense.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #19 –
Quote from: kwanbis on
Quote from: bsiffredi link=msg=774806 date=
If you agree, you'll understand that the quality of the rip is very important in this case. So, being that iTunes is not a really secure ripper (at least running on a Windows PC), to use this format a dude very concerned with sound quality (like me) would have to rip the CD in EAC, in WAV, and than convert it to ALAC in the iTunes. It's a boring procedure. So, since Apple doesn't show a lot of concern towards improving the quality of their ripper (at least as far as I know), the main importance of this info about ALAC being 'open' is the possibility that they will sell it.

I tend to think that people so concerned with their music quality, are the ones that took best care of their CDs, so, they shouldn't have that much trouble with ripping.
No. At least not me. I rip and then don't care about discs...even though I misplaced digital copies more than once....

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #20 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Quote from: bsiffredi link=msg=774806 date=
So, being that iTunes is not a really secure ripper (at least running on a Windows PC), to use this format a dude very concerned with sound quality (like me) would have to rip the CD in EAC, in WAV, and than convert it to ALAC in the iTunes.


I am sorry but anyone with the knowledge of this website would know that both EAC and dBpowerAMP have been able to rip CDs to ALAC files for quite a bit of time now.  The whole EAC CD rip to WAV to ALAC in iTunes is a long method and you know that there are other options out there.  The only difference now is that someone can make an ALAC encoder and have it work with EAC.  So you should be ecstatic for this announcement since you will no longer have to go through EAC to rip WAV files only to encode them in iTunes as ALAC (even though we both know that you improperly used that example).

Again, I don't see why this having nothing to do with the iTunes Store means it is irrelevant.  You painted yourself in a corner with your comments by referring to "most people," then saying they aren't the majority market, and then saying "most people" again to mean a large portion of the PC market.  Then you further state that this news update is meaningless only to provide an example of how it will actually be beneficial.  It's alright if you don't support Apple, just don't try to makeup some excuse by running around in circles making nonsense.


You know what? You're right. It'll be great for all Apple Fan Boys out there, who need to run everything in they're iThings and sleep under a Steve Jobs portrait.

For the rest of the small percentage of the fraction of the tiny part of the world filled with people who are NOT Apple Fan Boys (or Girls), it's irrelevant.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #21 –
Let’s not be silly. Owning a product by Apple does not necessarily make one a rabid partisan. Not that I deny that the latter exist! But, as usual, trying to render everything in black and white leads to absurdity. Blindly following anyone or anything is bad; but is blindly denouncing everyone who goes anywhere near it really all that much better…?
 

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #22 –
Quote from: db1989 on
Let’s not be silly. Owning a product by Apple does not necessarily make one a rabid partisan. Not that I deny that the latter exist! But, as usual, trying to render everything in black and white leads to absurdity. Blindly following anyone or anything is bad; but is blindly denouncing everyone who goes anywhere near it really all that much better…?


I know, but hey, he started it. I actually have Apple products and like them, I'm not anti-Apple at all. But iTunes is crap. Just listen to a track on iTunes, WinAmp and VLC. On iTunes, everything sounds worse. It rips CDs full of errors, and doesn't identify scratches. The MP3 codec it comes with is crap also.

Lots of other stuff on Macs are great. Logic Pro is great (I've edited music on it, it's got nothing wrong with it), Final Cut is great (same). iTunes, however, is crap.

All I was saying from the begining is that if Apple decides to sell flawless music formats on iTunes, this would be a move which could influence the whole digital music market to take that last step towards becoming a real business. Why do I think it's not a real business now? Because anyone can download music illegaly nowadays, so people who actually buy music in this scenario are people who really like music. These people will, I imagine, prefer a better quality. And no DRM.

If one can download for free music in high quality without DRM, you won't convence them to send money on low quality with DRM. It's simple.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #23 –
Quote from: bsiffredi on
If one can download for free music in high quality without DRM, you won't convence them to send money on low quality with DRM. It's simple.

Are you talking about the iTunes Store from several years ago? Because nowadays, the tracks you can download from it are definitely not "low quality with DRM".

DRM is already gone for several years, and the 256kbps AAC quality is quite good. Not lossless of course, but still quite good.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.

[OFF-TOPIC] From: Apple Lossless Audio Codec is now open source (Apach

Reply #24 –
Quote from: _m²_ on
No. At least not me. I rip and then don't care about discs...even though I misplaced digital copies more than once....

Well, there are always exceptions to the rules.

Quote from: bsiffredi on
But iTunes is crap. Just listen to a track on iTunes, WinAmp and VLC. On iTunes, everything sounds worse. It rips CDs full of errors, and doesn't identify scratches. The MP3 codec it comes with is crap also.

You need to backup all that with ABX tests.