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Topic: Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files? (Read 11280 times) previous topic - next topic
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Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Is there a standard for which type of lyrics should be put in which tags? When using MediaMonkey and adding lyrics (unsynced), they apparently go to the tag "unsynced lyrics". Lyric show and Lyrics panel (in foobar2000) use (by default)  "lyrics". Some mp3 players (e.g. iPod) can display lyrics, does anybody know what tag(s) they use? If it is "lyrics", then I suppose the time information will be displayed too (if you have synced lyrics there).

I just hate to use anything non-standard, as it is often subject to change, and since you can't rely on others using it the same way as you do.

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #1 –
Quote from: MiSP on
Is there a standard for which type of lyrics should be put in which tags? When using MediaMonkey and adding lyrics (unsynced), they apparently go to the tag "unsynced lyrics". Lyric show and Lyrics panel (in foobar2000) use (by default)  "lyrics". Some mp3 players (e.g. iPod) can display lyrics, does anybody know what tag(s) they use? If it is "lyrics", then I suppose the time information will be displayed too (if you have synced lyrics there).

I just hate to use anything non-standard, as it is often subject to change, and since you can't rely on others using it the same way as you do.


Field names can vary by players.  Lyrics would be common though.

The actual tag names are defined in as official of a standard that exists for ID3 as:

USLT for unsynchronized lyrics transcription and
SYLT for synchonized lyrics transcription

USLT is read as plain-text and SYLT is formatted with [xx:xx.xx] at the begining of every line where the x's are numerics for the time location in the song where that line begins.

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #2 –
So there's no guarantee that hardware mp3 players uses USLT and/or SYLT?

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: MiSP on
So there's no guarantee that hardware mp3 players uses USLT and/or SYLT?


I believe that is correct.  Please do note the distinction between "field names" and "tag names".  For IDEv2.4, all tag names are four capitalized characters.  The field names can be full descriptors.  The reason they vary from player to player is that the information is stored in the mp3 file by tags using tag names, and then interpreted into fields by the player itself.  Only things like Date (which happens to be 4 characters) may end up being identical between field name and tag name (except tag is capatilized, DATE).

USLT and SYLT are the tag names.  The field could just be Lyrics, and could be applied to either synchronized or unsynchronized lyrics.  Or many other things.

The reason I believe there is no guarantee is that ID3 itself is not an official standard.  While it is a standard, there are multiple concurrent versions ID3v1, ID3v2.3, ID3v2.4 that are not fully compatible.  If a hardware player does support lyrics, it would probably say so and provide information on how to store lyrics so that they can be read.  Lyrics don't even have to be stored inside the actual mp3 file, they can be in a separate text file that is named appropriately.

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Empyrean on
Please do note the distinction between "field names" and "tag names".  For IDEv2.4, all tag names are four capitalized characters. The field names can be full descriptors. The reason they vary from player to player is that the information is stored in the mp3 file by tags using tag names, and then interpreted into fields by the player itself.  Only things like Date (which happens to be 4 characters) may end up being identical between field name and tag name (except tag is capatilized, DATE).

USLT and SYLT are the tag names.  The field could just be Lyrics, and could be applied to either synchronized or unsynchronized lyrics.  Or many other things.

As far as I know, this is incorrect. Accoring to the official id3.org terminology, what you refer to as "tag names" is actually called "frames" (and sometimes also "fields" which they seem to use synonymously), whereas the sum of all frames form the "tag".

As far as the 4-letter-codes are concerned, I don't know about the official term, but I saw them often as being refered to as 4-letter identifyers.
And then there is a program's internal name for a given frame, which tends to vary from program to program.

But maybe someone with more knowledge than me can give an update on the correct use of terms here?

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #5 –
It might be of use to know that some MP3 Players use the lyrics from a different file, usually Artist - Title.lrc or Artist - TITLE.txt

I am curious, though, as to what is the field name for iPods. My ex-girlfriend used to complain that I would send her songs without lyrics. I tried both LYRICS, UNSYNCED LYRICS, USLT and SYLT.

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #6 –
chrizoo: Holy bump, but at least you're trying to clarify things for anyone who may stumble across this topic from a search. Wait; never mind; no one searches.

Quote from: chrizoo on
As far as I know, this is incorrect. Accoring to the official id3.org terminology, what you refer to as "tag names" is actually called "frames" (and sometimes also "fields" which they seem to use synonymously), whereas the sum of all frames form the "tag".

You're largely correct, although "field" is defined slightly differently (albeit synonymously for most purposes, as you've said) in the informal standards (v2.3, v2.4): "A tag is the whole tag…A frame is a block of information in the tag. …A field is a piece of information; one value, a string etc."

Quote
As far as the 4-letter-codes are concerned, I don't know about the official term, but I saw them often as being refered to as 4-letter identifyers.

According to the above documents, the term is "frame ID".

--

Quote from: Cidinho on
I tried both LYRICS, UNSYNCED LYRICS, USLT and SYLT.

In which application? By the former two, do you mean that you wrote TXXX frames with those names? Anyway… A quick Google suggests that USLT is the one to use, but perhaps the application you used didn't write it correctly (e.g. wrote a TXXX frame instead).

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #7 –
many thanks for your corrections and addendums ("frame ID"), dv1989!

Quote from: dv1989 on
chrizoo: Holy bump, but at least you're trying to clarify things for anyone who may stumble across this topic from a search. Wait; never mind; no one searches.

well, I do 
and yes, that was my intention, because the threads show up in google search, too. And it gets confusing when people use different terminology.

Quote
Quote from: chrizoo on
As far as I know, this is incorrect. Accoring to the official id3.org terminology, what you refer to as "tag names" is actually called "frames" (and sometimes also "fields" which they seem to use synonymously), whereas the sum of all frames form the "tag".

You're largely correct, although "field" is defined slightly differently (albeit synonymously for most purposes, as you've said) ... A field is a piece of information; one value, a string etc."

Yes, I was refering to the same source as you ( http://www.id3.org/id3v2.4.0-frames ), and your info is a direct quote from the beginning of the article. But later on in the article they say
Quote
TENC
  The 'Encoded by' frame contains the name of the person or
  organisation that encoded the audio file. This field may contain a
  copyright message, if the audio file also is copyrighted by the
  encoder.

which led me to believe that they use the term synonymously. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I actually think that a frame consists of one or more fields + additional data (concerning the frame length, etc.), so a "field" is actually a subcomponent of a frame which is a subcomponent of a tag. Right ?

And any idea what the correct name is for the "frame ID" translation (i.e. the column "internal names" here: http://140.211.166.134/pub/musicbrainz/users/luks/tags.html ) ?

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: chrizoo on
…led me to believe that they use the term synonymously. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I actually think that a frame consists of one or more fields + additional data (concerning the frame length, etc.), so a "field" is actually a subcomponent of a frame which is a subcomponent of a tag. Right ?

I'm not certain. I intended my post to indicate that I agreed with you: they seem to be fairly synonymous. I did consider, like you, that "field" may refer to each value within a multi-value frame (i.e. values separated by slashes [v2.3] or null characters [v2.4]), which is suggested by the standard ("A field is a piece of information; one value, a string etc."), but it's not totally clear.

Quote
And any idea what the correct name is for the "frame ID" translation (i.e. the column "internal names" here: http://140.211.166.134/pub/musicbrainz/users/luks/tags.html ) ?

I wondered this too. "Internal name" isn't a bad option, or one could use "description" as the standard does for TXXX frames. I'd suggest "field name", but that may be too easily confused with "field ID".

To summarise both of the above paragraphs:

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #9 –
okay, many thanks for your info, dv1989.

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #10 –
Quote
Quote from: Cidinho on
I tried both LYRICS, UNSYNCED LYRICS, USLT and SYLT.

In which application? By the former two, do you mean that you wrote TXXX frames with those names? Anyway… A quick Google suggests that USLT is the one to use, but perhaps the application you used didn't write it correctly (e.g. wrote a TXXX frame instead).

In iTunes. Since I hate using iTunes but it is needed for the iPod, I tried adding the lyrics in foobar2000 adding those field names.

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #11 –
Can you clarify: Did you add the fields with foobar2000, then try to view them in iTunes? If so, I can't offer much speculation beyond that above; in other words, perhaps foobar2000 doesn't support those frames and wrote the lyrics to TXXX frames instead. Perhaps ask in its forum? The devs ought to know!

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Cidinho on
I am curious, though, as to what is the field name for iPods. My ex-girlfriend used to complain that I would send her songs without lyrics. I tried both LYRICS, UNSYNCED LYRICS, USLT and SYLT.


why don't you upload a 30 seconds sample file after adding lyrics with your iPod. Then we can tell you.

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #13 –
Or just add lyrics with iTunes then view the tags with a program that doesn't do any internal re-mapping of fields/frames [flashback to earlier confusion], and thus can provide a comprehensive and precise list of all tags/frames/fields in a file (something like MP3Tag, I'd guess).

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: dv1989 on
... a program that ... can provide a comprehensive and precise list of all tags/frames/fields in a file (something like MP3Tag, I'd guess).

MP3Tag only understands (and thus displays) USLT, but neither SYLT nor lyrics3.

Quote from: dv1989 on
a program that doesn't do any internal re-mapping of fields/frames

what do you mean by re-mapping of frames? If you refer to the fact, that programs translate the 4-letter frame IDs to human readable words like composer, artist, album, etc. well that's pretty much the approach every program takes.

At least as I've seen so far.
But I agree, I would love to see a program that "can provide a comprehensive and precise list of all tags/frames/fields in a file".
I'm not sure that something like that exists though unfortunately.

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #15 –
My mistake; I thought it may be able to simply show all frames within the file. Surely there's a program that can do this?

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: dv1989 on
My mistake; I thought it may be able to simply show all frames within the file. Surely there's a program that can do this?


Not that I know of.

MP3Tag is quite advanced. But I haven't seen a single program yet, that is able to enumerate (let alone display or edit) all id3v2.4 frames.
I guess the freeware devs' rationale is that some frames might be rarely used, so the tradeoff between usefulness and the freetime they would have to invest is not worth it. That's of course understandable. On the ohter hand my take is that the id3 standard should either be completely supported or not at all. It's such a hassle to find out how different programs handle parts of it, and how unknown frames are handled (discarded? rewritten without interpretation? etc.)

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #17 –
Cidinho: According to the foobar2000 ID3 tag mapping table, UNSYNCED LYRICS is indeed mapped to the USLT frame. You didn't mention which ID3v2 version you wrote with foobar2000, but I wouldn't imagine it makes a difference, assuming both modes support the same frames. Again, perhaps you should ask on the foobar2000 forum.
 

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #18 –
Quote
But I haven't seen a single program yet, that is able to enumerate (let alone display or edit) all id3v2.4 frames.

Maybe Axone?

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: chrizoo on
which led me to believe that they use the term synonymously. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I actually think that a frame consists of one or more fields + additional data (concerning the frame length, etc.), so a "field" is actually a subcomponent of a frame which is a subcomponent of a tag. Right ?


This is correct.  A frame consists of one or more fields.  One of the fields is that actual "value" part of the metadata.  The other fields are usually things like string encoding, language, etc.  Some of the non-text frames have many fields.

Is there a lyric standard for mp3 files?

Reply #20 –
Quote from: lvqcl on
Quote
But I haven't seen a single program yet, that is able to enumerate (let alone display or edit) all id3v2.4 frames.

Maybe Axone?


impeccable. thanks so much lvqcl.
It's like all my Christmases have come at once


Quote from: benski on
Quote from: chrizoo on
which led me to believe that they use the term synonymously. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I actually think that a frame consists of one or more fields + additional data (concerning the frame length, etc.), so a "field" is actually a subcomponent of a frame which is a subcomponent of a tag. Right ?

This is correct.  A frame consists of one or more fields.  One of the fields is that actual "value" part of the metadata.  The other fields are usually things like string encoding, language, etc.  Some of the non-text frames have many fields.

thanks for confirming benski.
(Great, now I can wander around correcting everyone here ...  just kiddin', but it's still important to use the right terms to avoid making a confusing topic even more confusing for everyone else).