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Topic: foosic / FooID autotag (Read 59604 times) previous topic - next topic
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foosic / FooID autotag

The new FooID idea is pretty cool - it can't be long before every Pink Floyd song ever written has been fingerprinted. 

Just out of interest, how does lossy encoding / decoding affect the FooID? I notice "only" high 90's percentage certainty on my songs.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #1 –
The fingerprints were designed specifically to resist lossy encodings.

Exactly how good the thing is remains to be seen in practise, it's rather hard to evaluate in laboratory conditions. But I gave it my best shot 

I had no false positives or negatives with encoding a load of stuff to 15kbps AAC, for example

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #2 –
How does this compare with musicbrainz which offers the same fingerprint/taging functionality and is also free?

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #3 –
Open source is not the same as free:

http://www.musicip.com/themes/predixis/dow...nt%20Patent.pdf

Musicbrainz (really MusicDNS/MusicIP)'s method is patented, and for example NOT FREE for "commercial use" (the boundaries of that being defined by them).

No such restrictions exist on libFooID. If you have a cool shareware tagger app, by all means, just use it.

Aside from that, I believe libFooID is much superior to libofa in terms of fingerprint calculation and recognition performance, particularly with modern codecs. One main reason is that it is soundly  based on psychoacoustic principles, which libofa is not. The combination of libofa being not-free and my dislike of their methods lead to libFooID.


By the way, the musicbrainz people might be interested in this. It's up to them.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #4 –
Sorry for the noobness but how do I use this?
Could I run the fingerprinting routine in my library and submit it to the server with foobar? Is this the way to contribute to the fingerprinting database?
I'd like to help this project...

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #5 –
Hi, great stuff  I've been using Foosic for a little while now & it's going a treat. I too would like to know how FooID works, I have it (foold.dll) in my component directory but I can't find anywhere to configure or use it?
Cheers

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #6 –
To use it with foobar2000, just make sure you have the latest foo_sic installed and configured. Support is built-in.

The libFooID download is meant for other developers, no need to meddle with those DLL's as a user.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #7 –
Thanks fot the info
Cheers
 

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #9 –
Not in foobar, though that would be a nice option..

The Autotag programme shows the certainty. You can get it from the FooID page.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #10 –
I think the main hurdle for it to become useful also for non-mainstream music is popularity.

Popularity however will not increase enough as long as it is a seperate service. Joe average does not want to install and handle two cd-lookup services (freeDB and Foosic). For foosic to become popular enough, it must be part of an already established service provider, like i.e. freeDB. If freeDB would support it(with client-support being optional), then it could become popular.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #11 –
Quote from: krazy on
Not in foobar, though that would be a nice option.. 

The Autotag programme shows the certainty. You can get it from the FooID page.

Aah, thanks. Found it.

Even with FLAC files I just get about 99.5% certainty, but I think that doesn't really matter. Who cares of 0.5%?

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Lyx on
I think the main hurdle for it to become useful also for non-mainstream music is popularity.

Popularity however will not increase enough as long as it is a seperate service. Joe average does not want to install and handle two cd-lookup services (freeDB and Foosic). For foosic to become popular enough, it must be part of an already established service provider, like i.e. freeDB. If freeDB would support it(with client-support being optional), then it could become popular.

- Lyx


I thought a bit about this. foosic is currently up to 270 000 songs. Of course most of these are not printed, but since support is now enabled by default, prints can be expected to be added in about the same pace. This means that the foosic database is about 6% of the entire musicbrainz database at this point. freedb claims 2M albums, which makes foosic about 2.5% of freedb.

With just one player supporting it, and being active only for a month or two, I think that's not a bad outlook, regardless of whether anyone else adopts libFooID or not.

At the very least there is a free alternative now. There is also nothing against supporting both.

The main issue is that you need to be able to decode the audio data to be able to generate the fingerprint, which may be a problem for tagging programs (AutoTag simply uses external commandline decoders).


Quote from: Anas on
Quote from: krazy on
Not in foobar, though that would be a nice option.. 

The Autotag programme shows the certainty. You can get it from the FooID page.

Aah, thanks. Found it.

Even with FLAC files I just get about 99.5% certainty, but I think that doesn't really matter. Who cares of 0.5%?


Roundoff errors will generate those kind of differences. Lossy encoding will generate differences of about 2%-10%.

I'm a bit interested in the highest confidence you get to see for 2 songs which are really not the same or related (and that are longer than 90 seconds). The server currently won't return any result under 50%, and the highest which I remember seeing was 52% or so.

Songs gets accepted as automatic matches if the confidence is >75%.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Garf on
To use it with foobar2000, just make sure you have the latest foo_sic installed and configured. Support is built-in.

The libFooID download is meant for other developers, no need to meddle with those DLL's as a user.


Is there a way to run the routine in the whole library without having to play each track and submit the results during/after that?
This would make the database grow faster.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #14 –
Quote from: beto on
Quote from: Garf on

To use it with foobar2000, just make sure you have the latest foo_sic installed and configured. Support is built-in.

The libFooID download is meant for other developers, no need to meddle with those DLL's as a user.


Is there a way to run the routine in the whole library without having to play each track and submit the results during/after that?
This would make the database grow faster.


It would be possible to make something like this but I'm not sure if there's really a point. The database will grow...faster every day

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Garf on
It would be possible to make something like this but I'm not sure if there's really a point. The database will grow...faster every day


At least for me there are some songs in my library that I don't listen to very often (to be honest there are some I never listened to  ), but I suppose you're right. It will grow in due time. 

Thanks for making this available btw. I think it is a great idea.

The next step you should focus is integrating autotag in foobar (like a component or something). That would be the way to go IMO. In the future it could even replace foo_freedb 

Do you intend to distribute this with the foobar installer? That would be interesting also.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Garf on
I'm a bit interested in the highest confidence you get to see for 2 songs which are really not the same or related (and that are longer than 90 seconds). The server currently won't return any result under 50%, and the highest which I remember seeing was 52% or so.

Songs gets accepted as automatic matches if the confidence is >75%.

I didn't get that, sorry. What do you mean by confidence?

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Anas on
Quote from: Garf on
I'm a bit interested in the highest confidence you get to see for 2 songs which are really not the same or related (and that are longer than 90 seconds). The server currently won't return any result under 50%, and the highest which I remember seeing was 52% or so.

Songs gets accepted as automatic matches if the confidence is >75%.

I didn't get that, sorry. What do you mean by confidence?


Confidence that 2 fingerprints are really belonging to the same song. The tagging server sends back this information and AutoTag displays it.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #18 –
I've had some issues with this plugin.

1. During time it takes to compute a song audioprint (~1 sec), foobar stops playing. I know I have enough computing power (Dual 3 Ghz Xeons).  This is *really* annoying (worse than no gapless).  Is anyone else having this issue?

2. Also I am behind a firewall and a proxy, and with ports 3400 or whatever there's not a chance of submitting through those ports.  Is there another way to get data through?

Any help here would be great.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #19 –
Quote from: drfindley on
2. Also I am behind a firewall and a proxy, and with ports 3400 or whatever there's not a chance of submitting through those ports.  Is there another way to get data through?


Submissions protocol requires outgoing UDP traffic on port 34000.

There are absolutely no plans to change this. If your network setup does not allow you to send 1-way, connectionless, outgoing data traffic on a nonpriviledged port, you should take the hint your network admin is obviously trying to send to you, and refrain from running unauthorized applications.



Quote from: drfindley on
Is anyone else having this issue?


No

Do you have foobar2000's priority lowered, or something?

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #20 –
Great plugin Garf

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #21 –
Quote from: drfindley on
1. During time it takes to compute a song audioprint (~1 sec), foobar stops playing. I know I have enough computing power (Dual 3 Ghz Xeons).  This is *really* annoying (worse than no gapless).  Is anyone else having this issue?
I haven't noticed this yet. The only other problem report I got was from a user with a slow CPU who experienced stuttering in playback while the fingerprint was computed. The latest version (1.0 beta 7a, uploaded just now) which runs the fingerprint computation at reduced priority partially solved the problem for him. Given your CPU, I suspect this would be caused by something else. Are you playing songs from a slow medium like a network share over WiFi or something like that?

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Jimbo51 on
Great plugin Garf


I am innocent! I didn't do anything! It wasn't me!

foosion wrote the plugin 
I wrote the fingerprinting system & library.

foosic / FooID autotag

Reply #24 –
Wow. I'm really impressed now. Two versions of the same song, the same length (to within ~15k samples), one version from a greatest hits CD and one from a compilation were recognised as being different by Autotag! 8)

Edit: ...and yet the same song, same album, two different encodings (different formats and lengths since one was an old mp3 without accurate length) is recognised as a match! Amazing work with the FooID algorithm Garf! Especially after having previously tried the Musicbrainz tagger