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Topic: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough? (Read 6370 times) previous topic - next topic
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Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Cheap Trigkey computer
Windows 11
Topping D10S USB DAC
Foobar 2000 2.0 [x86]

I have DTS music in a FLAC wrapper. I want to send it out to my USB DAC via WASAPI Exclusive so the DAC will output the unaltered DTS signal via S/PDIF into my receiver. It works fine for me on another computer running version 1.6.13, but with 2.0 I can't seem to get Foobar to not decode the DTS signal into a 6-channel output.

Under Playback -> Decoding "FFmpeg DTS Decoder" and "FFmpeg AC-3 Decoder" are both unchecked. AC-3 is being passed through unaltered to the receiver as expected/desired, but DTS keeps being decoded via Foobar. I have not installed any DTS-related components, just the ones for DSD/SACD (and DSD playback is working perfectly).

Am I overlooking something obvious or is this a bug?

Thanks!

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #1 –
DTS in FLAC (also wav and some other lossless formats) are decoded by postprocessing. And it seems that in fb2k v2 postprocessing remains active, even if decoder is disabled in settings.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Bogozo on
DTS in FLAC (also wav and some other lossless formats) are decoded by postprocessing. And it seems that in fb2k v2 postprocessing remains active, even if decoder is disabled in settings.

Well, that's...disappointing. And a bit frustrating. And a change!

I can live with it, though it seems odd that it would only be the case with DTS and not AC-3.

Thank you for the response!

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: atrocity on
Quote from: Bogozo on
DTS in FLAC (also wav and some other lossless formats) are decoded by postprocessing. And it seems that in fb2k v2 postprocessing remains active, even if decoder is disabled in settings.

Well, that's...disappointing. And a bit frustrating. And a change!

I can live with it, though it seems odd that it would only be the case with DTS and not AC-3.

Thank you for the response!

Hi,

am I missing something? I have always begged for bitstream passthrough in foobar to no avail. Passthrough never worked and as far as I know never intended. Yey you both say that ac3 passthrough works.....so I just tested an "*.ac3" file with "ffmpeg ac3 decoder" checked - file was decoded to pcm (as expected). Then I tried the same file with "ffmpeg ac3 decoder" unchecked...and all I got was an error saying that I disabled the decoder so the file could not be played (also as expected).....So how do you get ac3 bitstream passthrough from foobar to AVR?

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: wojak on
Yey you both say that ac3 passthrough works.....
Only atrocity did say this. Probabaly, he has foo_spdifer installed, but forgot about this.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: wojak on
am I missing something? I have always begged for bitstream passthrough in foobar to no avail. Passthrough never worked and as far as I know never intended. Yey you both say that ac3 passthrough works.....so I just tested an "*.ac3" file with "ffmpeg ac3 decoder" checked - file was decoded to pcm (as expected). Then I tried the same file with "ffmpeg ac3 decoder" unchecked...and all I got was an error saying that I disabled the decoder so the file could not be played (also as expected).....So how do you get ac3 bitstream passthrough from foobar to AVR?

In my case, my main media system is Logitech Media Server, so I routinely wrap DTS and AC-3 in FLAC. Works perfectly for LMS and both have always worked in the past for me with Foobar2000. But I have no experience with trying to play that material while it's still in its native .ac3 or .dts file format.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: atrocity on
Quote from: wojak on
am I missing something? I have always begged for bitstream passthrough in foobar to no avail. Passthrough never worked and as far as I know never intended. Yey you both say that ac3 passthrough works.....so I just tested an "*.ac3" file with "ffmpeg ac3 decoder" checked - file was decoded to pcm (as expected). Then I tried the same file with "ffmpeg ac3 decoder" unchecked...and all I got was an error saying that I disabled the decoder so the file could not be played (also as expected).....So how do you get ac3 bitstream passthrough from foobar to AVR?

In my case, my main media system is Logitech Media Server, so I routinely wrap DTS and AC-3 in FLAC. Works perfectly for LMS and both have always worked in the past for me with Foobar2000. But I have no experience with trying to play that material while it's still in its native .ac3 or .dts file format.

I still do not understand? What does your LMS server got to do with foobar decoding or not ac3/dts? I do have dtswav file wchich as expected is always being decoded to pcm (never passedthrough).
I have never had ac3wav/ac3flac file so I can't say if it is passed. Are there any free samples of ac3wavs/flacs or do you know of any free software that makes such files so I could try doing so?

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: wojak on
I still do not understand? What does your LMS server got to do with foobar decoding or not ac3/dts?

Nothing directly. I brought it up to explain why I routinely put DTS and AC-3 into a FLAC container: It works with my main music system and, prior to 2.0, also worked with Foobar2000. Being in a FLAC container also allows tagging.

Quote from: wojak on
I have never had ac3wav/ac3flac file so I can't say if it is passed. Are there any free samples of ac3wavs/flacs or do you know of any free software that makes such files so I could try doing so?

I generally use AudioMuxer (which is free) to create those files. Here's a good example of one:
https://www.jottacloud.com/s/207b5c2bb661d804e7fa12f8471c18b393f

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: atrocity on
Quote from: wojak on
I still do not understand? What does your LMS server got to do with foobar decoding or not ac3/dts?

Nothing directly. I brought it up to explain why I routinely put DTS and AC-3 into a FLAC container: It works with my main music system and, prior to 2.0, also worked with Foobar2000. Being in a FLAC container also allows tagging.

Quote from: wojak on
I have never had ac3wav/ac3flac file so I can't say if it is passed. Are there any free samples of ac3wavs/flacs or do you know of any free software that makes such files so I could try doing so?

I generally use AudioMuxer (which is free) to create those files. Here's a good example of one:
https://www.jottacloud.com/s/207b5c2bb661d804e7fa12f8471c18b393f

There seems to be something weird:

- *.AC3 file plays as PCM if ffmpeg ac3 decoder is checked and does not play at all if unchecked
-  *.dts file plays as PCM if ffmpeg dts decoder is checked and does not play at all if unchecked
- ac3 stream wrapped in flac/wav plays as ac3 no matter if ffmpeg ac3 decoder is checked or not
- dts stream wrapped in flac/wav plays as PCM no matter if ffmpeg dts decoder is checked or not.
So ac3 wrapped in flac is treated different than dts wrapped in flac. It does not matter if decoders are checked.
Those decoders probably only work with direct ac3/dts files - either decoding them or not playing them at all.

And DTSHDMA and DolbyTrueHD in m2ts files play as PCM when *.m2ts is checked in decoder wrapper and do not play at all when unchecked.

I do not have spdifier installed.

This shows that it is possible to implement bitstream passthrough in foobar. If it ever happens (I hope so) I would like it to be switchable (on/off) and including lossles HD signals. I hope somebody does that.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: wojak on
There seems to be something weird:

- *.AC3 file plays as PCM if ffmpeg ac3 decoder is checked and does not play at all if unchecked
-  *.dts file plays as PCM if ffmpeg dts decoder is checked and does not play at all if unchecked
- ac3 stream wrapped in flac/wav plays as ac3 no matter if ffmpeg ac3 decoder is checked or not
- dts stream wrapped in flac/wav plays as PCM no matter if ffmpeg dts decoder is checked or not.
So ac3 wrapped in flac is treated different than dts wrapped in flac. It does not matter if decoders are checked.
Those decoders probably only work with direct ac3/dts files - either decoding them or not playing them at all.

And DTSHDMA and DolbyTrueHD in m2ts files play as PCM when *.m2ts is checked in decoder wrapper and do not play at all when unchecked.

Thank you for checking this out. I can't decide if I'm happy that I'm not doing something wrong or sad because it isn't something I can easily fix on my end.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: atrocity on
it isn't something I can easily fix on my end

@atrocity , one thing you can try: set decoding of flac to Ffmpeg decoder wrapper instead of native fb2k decoder. This way DTS in such files will not be detected and decoded by fb2k.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Bogozo on
one thing you can try: set decoding of flac to Ffmpeg decoder wrapper instead of native fb2k decoder. This way DTS in such files will not be detected and decoded by fb2k.

I don't see an option to have FFmpeg decode FLAC on the list of decoders and also don't see a way to add it. Am I missing something obvious (again!)?

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #15 –




It is also possible to leave decoding of normal FLAC files to native decoder and let ffmpeg decode files with packed AC3/DTS. For this, such special files must have double extension (like ac3.flac, dts.flac), Ffmpeg decoder wrapper must be set to decode files with such double extension (and not normal single extension) and it must be higher in decoders priority list than native decoder.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Bogozo on




It is also possible to leave decoding of normal FLAC files to native decoder and let ffmpeg decode files with packed AC3/DTS. For this, such special files must have double extension (like ac3.flac, dts.flac), Ffmpeg decoder wrapper must be set to decode files with such double extension (and not normal single extension) and it must be higher in decoders priority list than native decoder.

Hi,
I tried both of your suggestions (with decoderwrapper and also with double extension) and they did not work with dtswav nor dtsflac file. I did not try ac3 but those files are treated different by foobar than dts.
No matter if I uncheck foobar and check decoderwrapper or if I change extension (and move wrapper on top of decoder list)  DTS always comes out as PCM to my AVR (while VLC outputs it as DTS).

I tried this on dtswav file.  When I converted dtswav file to flac I think that output file was normal flac and not flacdts file. Output flac was bigger than input wav.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #17 –
Quote from: wojak on
I tried both of your suggestions (with decoderwrapper and also with double extension) and they did not work with dtswav nor dtsflac file. I did not try ac3 but those files are treated different by foobar than dts.
No matter if I uncheck foobar and check decoderwrapper or if I change extension (and move wrapper on top of decoder list)  DTS always comes out as PCM to my AVR (while VLC outputs it as DTS).
I also tried my suggestion and fb2k did not decode DTS from FLAC this way. Note, that i wasn't talking about wav. Standalone ffmpeg is detecting and decoding DTS packed in wav, but not in FLAC.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Bogozo on
Quote from: wojak on
I tried both of your suggestions (with decoderwrapper and also with double extension) and they did not work with dtswav nor dtsflac file. I did not try ac3 but those files are treated different by foobar than dts.
No matter if I uncheck foobar and check decoderwrapper or if I change extension (and move wrapper on top of decoder list)  DTS always comes out as PCM to my AVR (while VLC outputs it as DTS).
I also tried my suggestion and fb2k did not decode DTS from FLAC this way. Note, that i wasn't talking about wav. Standalone ffmpeg is detecting and decoding DTS packed in wav, but not in FLAC.

So what must I do to get DTS on my AVR from flac/wav? Use dtswavs or dtsflacs - did I  understand you correctly that it will not work with dtswav but should work with dtsflac? How to make dtsflac from dtswav - normal conversion in flac?

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #19 –
Are you sure, your files are correctly packed and aren't plain DTS files just with changed extension?

Quote from: wojak on
did I  understand you correctly that it will not work with dtswav but should work with dtsflac?
Yes.

Quote from: wojak on
How to make dtsflac from dtswav - normal conversion in flac?
Yes. But NOT with fb2k's converter of course. Because it will decode DTS from wav before converting to FLAC. Use command line encoder directly.

Edited: Well, fb2k will not decode DTS from wav on conversion if you will not enable option "Enable decode postprocessing" in converter settings.
 

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Bogozo on
Are you sure, your files are correctly packed and aren't plain DTS files just with changed extension?

Quote from: wojak on
did I  understand you correctly that it will not work with dtswav but should work with dtsflac?
Yes.

Quote from: wojak on
How to make dtsflac from dtswav - normal conversion in flac?
Yes. But NOT with fb2k's converter of course. Because it will decode DTS from wav before converting to FLAC. Use command line encoder directly.

Edited: Well, fb2k will not decode DTS from wav on conversion if you will not enable option "Enable decode postprocessing" in converter settings.

I do not have any postprocessing enabled in the converter (option:none).
How do I check if my file is dts with changed extension or dts packed in wav?
I tried to convert it to flac with dbpoweramp and the result was the same....normal pcm sound even in vls and mpchc, while those last two output dts from dtswav file.
How do I use command line encoder - which one etc.?

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Bogozo on
Are you sure, your files are correctly packed and aren't plain DTS files just with changed extension?

Quote from: wojak on
did I  understand you correctly that it will not work with dtswav but should work with dtsflac?
Yes.

Quote from: wojak on
How to make dtsflac from dtswav - normal conversion in flac?
Yes. But NOT with fb2k's converter of course. Because it will decode DTS from wav before converting to FLAC. Use command line encoder directly.

Edited: Well, fb2k will not decode DTS from wav on conversion if you will not enable option "Enable decode postprocessing" in converter settings.

I somehow managed to play dts.flac as dts in foobar using decoderwrapper but at the begining of the file there is always a loud "prrrrrt" sound and my peakmeter and waveform minibar do not work in this configuration. Waveform is just constant flat bar and peak is not moving but stays at constant level. When switching back to foobar decoding I get PCM (not dts) but with no "prrrt" sound and all visualisations working.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #23 –
Quote from: wojak on
I somehow managed to play dts.flac as dts in foobar using decoderwrapper but at the begining of the file there is always a loud "prrrrrt" sound and my peakmeter and waveform minibar do not work in this configuration. Waveform is just constant flat bar and peak is not moving but stays at constant level. When switching back to foobar decoding I get PCM (not dts) but with no "prrrt" sound and all visualisations working.

Sounds like whatever Foobar is feeding just takes a second to lock onto the DTS signal. That's pretty normal.

It's also normal to just see that constant flat waveform. Remember, it's not really "normal" audio data.

Re: Foobar2000 2.0 32 bit no DTS passthrough?

Reply #24 –
Quote from: wojak on
I somehow managed to play dts.flac as dts in foobar using decoderwrapper but at the begining of the file there is always a loud "prrrrrt" sound and my peakmeter and waveform minibar do not work in this configuration. Waveform is just constant flat bar and peak is not moving but stays at constant level. When switching back to foobar decoding I get PCM (not dts) but with no "prrrt" sound and all visualisations working.
I have almost zero knowledge of DTS/DSD but do recall reading that pure DSD output will not activate any visualizations and may be negatively affected by same;  the plugin foo_input_sacd allows the signal to be duplicated internally through Foobar as PCM for showing up on viz meters, while maintaining a pure DSD output, if the choice "DSD+PCM" is selected in its output type settings.  FWIW.