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Topic: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan (Read 3030 times) previous topic - next topic
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Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Please find attached my proposal with some subtle design improvements for the Mac version of foobar2000.

The goals are:

- Optimizing hierarchy and accessibility
- Improving the overall look and feel while staying true to the minimalistic/utilitarian foobar2000 approach we all love
- Make the app feel more Mac native by applying Apple's UI guidelines/components

If it is appreciated from a User/Developer perspective, I can tackle/provide more states including respective hover states.

https://www.figma.com/design/zEiYTUsKIgpXcBWwJY7hnl/foobar2000?node-id=0-1&t=JUWFD2w7Bg2iSw2i-1

For development purposes, I could also provide a more elaborate access to the Figma workspace which makes the development process way easier.

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #1
Btw. I explored a variant with a Sidebar. Way better in my opinion instead of having to select a preferred view through the dropdown. In addition a Sidebar could make Playlists and Internet Radio more accessible.

https://www.figma.com/design/zEiYTUsKIgpXcBWwJY7hnl/foobar2000?node-id=0-1&t=JUWFD2w7Bg2iSw2i-1

 I could also tackle mobile if it is appreciated because there is a lot of room for improvement from an UX/UI perspective.

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #2
Looks good!

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #3
I've been a macOS user for just over 10 years now. One of the few programs that I missed was, of course, fb2k. So I was all the more pleased when the first versions for the Mac came out.

The basic principle of fb2k under Windows has always been that it wanted to be identical to the operating system in terms of appearance and user guidance. Of course, I would like nothing more than for this to also apply to the Mac and for the expectations of the average user in terms of user experience and user interface to be fulfilled. The popularity of the program would increase tremendously because Mac users have higher expectations.

The screenshots above are looking good for a first draft. There are some points more in the ui/ux that could be addressed:


- All the dropdown menus for playback order, replaygain, dsp, output device and stream should rather be placed in the lower sound bar area (the footer). That would be the ideal place for them. I am thinking of a careful mix of icons and dropdown menus. You could then imagine this area as a cockpit where all the relevant functions are gathered together

- Tabs for the different playlists instead of the or as an alternative to playlist manager also make sense on the Mac

- The thumbnail for the album cover of the track being played should fill the entire bottom left-hand corner of the sound bar area. This means that the thumbnail would not lie above the progress bar. Instead, it would start to the right of the miniature. The thumbnail would still be small enough, but would then display more than it does now, where only a tiny thumbnail is displayed.

- Many more details but one point is crucial: actually it is a no go on Mac to let the user design the layout by scripting. This is not inviting for many, if not even deterrent. An alternative idea could be based on the consideration that Mac users do not want absolute freedom, but something that works quickly and intuitively. Less is more.

@backslash

Is your design realizable at all in fb2k which is not a swift ui app? If you have the time and inclination, I would be delighted if you could implement some of my suggestions

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #4
@q-stankovic

I will of course look into your feedback. I think it is important to stick to the basic concept of fb2k which is great in my opinion but the execution and the general UX/UI can of course be optimized. Especially the Mac and the mobile versions. It's apparent that no UX/UI person was ever involved in the development process. I still have a Windows PC but I only use it for some occasional gaming these days. Back in the day fb2k was my go to player on Windows. I was also pleased to see that there is a Mac version though it needs some love. ;-) Please ignore the attachments of the first post because they are already outdated and only look into Figma for the current state of affairs. I have no idea if the devs are willing or are capable/have the capacity to adapt any of the suggestions but it's still a fun exercise for me to see how fb2k could be improved. ;-)

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #5
Small update:

- Added "Playlists" (Playlist Manager) and "Radiostations" (Internet Radio) views and tackled how deal with the respective favorites in the sidebar too avoid sidebar clutter

- Some minor tweaks like adding search to playlist views (very obvious thing to do) and moving shuffle and repeat controls to the bottom bar because these controls are contextual based on played content. Makes no sense to have these functions on the top bar from a hierarchy perspective.

I am moving on exclusively with the sidebar variant because it's the only reasonable approach.

https://www.figma.com/design/zEiYTUsKIgpXcBWwJY7hnl/foobar2000?node-id=0-1&t=JUWFD2w7Bg2iSw2i-1

In case you are wondering how to navigate within Figma:

Hold space bar + left mouse button to move around
Hold control button + mousewheel to zoom in and out

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #6
Another iteration:

- Enhanced the bottom bar to make space for bigger cover art and added an equalizer button (@q-stankovic have look)
- Added an optional cover art panel. I never liked the existing solution for cover art. The current integration/placement felt always odd to me and it wastes valuable space from the library view

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #7
    I love how clean it looks like
- Enhanced the bottom bar to make space for bigger cover art and added an equalizer button (@q-stankovic have look)

That's not exactly what I meant. In your design the height of the footer bar increased dramatically and there is too much free space therefore. I meant following: by placing the progress bar right to the cover the thumbnail would be 4 times bigger without the need to increase the height.

Some thoughts more (to the design without sidebar):

  • It would be a valuable information to show the name of the album lists view right to the filter icon.
  • The name of the playlist is also a relevant piece of information. Actually the playlist window should contain its own minimal playlist switcher. A drop down menu f.e. would not only act as a switcher but also display the playlist name. In the meantime I think that playlist tabs would disturb the design
  • As far as I can see you separated in the footer bar the repeat and shuffle functionality into two icons. I wouldn't do that. I always loved that fb2k merged all these modes into one list of possible playback orders. I think that the playback orders name should be readable
  • The current mac version wants to be an east replication of the windows version in terms of ui apart from the footer bar that is unique. I think that the most parts should be unique and mac-like. In my eyes an layout editor for cartoon of several layouts is not necessary at all. Generally a mac user expects a three pane layout. In my eyes a good three pane layout would be: library viewer - playlist - selection info viewer. While the playlist is always shown the library viewer pane and the selection info viewer pane could be switchable by icons in the top bar of the window. Also the cover view should be combined with fb2ks selection infos (metadata, location ...). Here a screenshot of another player to show what I mean:

[/list]

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #8
I have to think a little bit about your concept of a sidebar. So far I am skeptical. In the next days I will post a few words about it

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #9
I understood what you meant with the progress bar in conjunction with the cover art but it's against the component/design guidelines. Makes no sense to bend existing components. And it looks better with some space around the covert art. An increased height of the bottom bar doesn't matter with nowadays resolutions. Let things breath a bit. This is also why things look so clean as you mentioned. Otherwise things will become quite cramped quickly. And things will of course evolve over time. This is still work in progress...

- The side bar makes complete sense because it solves a lot of issues with the current approach
- Album name next to the library filter makes no sense because it's the library view and not the playlist. Album name etc. will be shown in the playlist and in the bottom bar.
- The respective playlist name will/should of course be shown in the playlist header. In the design it's the default/current playlist and not some custom playlist. At least in the classic flow.
- Shuffle and repeat are two very different things. Makes no sense to mash those things together. UX common sense... Try finding a distinct icon for shuffle AND repeat which is self explanatory. There is a reason why you will have a hard time finding one. And a dropdown which states "default" in it's initial state is not a good solution. ;-)

I also thought about showing meta data in the cover art panel. Let's see!

Please don't take it personal if don't consider everything 1:1 what gets mentioned. That's not how design works. Of course I will read through feedback and consider input but I will give it my own spin. I do this for a living. There is a good reason behind every decision.

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #10
Another update:

- Fixed the navigation for the "Classic" version by introducing tabs in the top toolbar. This way we get rid of the ugly tabs in the main content area. The tabs in the content area can still remain in place for the Windows version. See the Backup screens on the bottom in Figma
- Added "Playlists" and "Radio" view for the "Classic" version. The idea is to get rid of the floating Playlist Manager and Internet Radio windows. They become basically useless because everything should be managed from the main views.
- Some general polishing and cleanup
- The basic fundamentals and patterns are now in place. From here it is smooth sailing!

https://www.figma.com/design/zEiYTUsKIgpXcBWwJY7hnl/foobar2000?node-id=0-1&t=JUWFD2w7Bg2iSw2i-1

Hold space bar + left mouse button to move around
Hold control button + mouse wheel to zoom in and out

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #11
Another small update:

- Fixed the library panel header including the sorting menu. The "Classic" version is turning out great and could become a really slick Mac application ;-)

https://www.figma.com/design/zEiYTUsKIgpXcBWwJY7hnl/foobar2000?node-id=0-1&t=JUWFD2w7Bg2iSw2i-1

Hold space bar + left mouse button to move around
Hold control button + mouse wheel to zoom in and out

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #12
Some minor polishing and component cleanup:

- Footer now shows codec / bitrate
- Started to work on the radio view but still work in progress. Where this is heading should be self explanatory

https://www.figma.com/design/zEiYTUsKIgpXcBWwJY7hnl/foobar2000?node-id=0-1&t=JUWFD2w7Bg2iSw2i-1

Hold space bar + left mouse button to move around
Hold control button + mouse wheel to zoom in and out

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #13
Please don't take it personal if don't consider everything 1:1 what gets mentioned.

Hey, not at all!  ;) On the contrary, I'm glad that someone is not only wishing for this, but also showing with his own design what a fb2k adapted to the Mac could look like.

Whatever a future version of fb2k may look like, it seems important to me that the design not only fulfills the expectations of Mac users, but that it is completely detached from how fb2k looks on Windows. The footer bar was a very promising start in this direction. I have to repeat myself at this point and emphasize once again that this customizability typical of windows is not expected at all for programs on the Mac. I would even go so far as to say that a single, but well thought-out layout on the mac is completely sufficient. Of course it makes sense to let the user decide whether he prefers to see a component (e.g. album list, facets, library search,...) integrated in the layout or as a standalone window. But that should be it.

A simple 3-pane layout, one where the individual panes are not even split vertically, would be ideal. I remember when I was active here, it was always said that fb2k is not about customizability. the credo was: make simple things easy and make complex things possible. Ultimately, however, it is the case in the windows world that it does seem to be about that for most users. And that is a fundamental difference between windows and mac.

Now some words to your answer:

- Album name next to the library filter makes no sense because it's the library view and not the playlist. Album name etc. will be shown in the playlist and in the bottom bar.

That's a misunderstanding! I didn't mean the album name, but the name of the album list view. However, in the last edition of your work you have already inserted a drop-down menu for selecting the view, which makes the name readable. Two suggestions: 1. the menu should be large enough so that you can read the full name of the view. And 2. there would be enough space in the top bar right next to the name “library”. If the search field is used temporarily, the drop-down menu can be covered.

- Shuffle and repeat are two very different things. Makes no sense to mash those things together.

Yes and no. I know what you mean, most players allow you to set shuffle and repeat independently of each other. But this is not the case in fb2k. They are already mashed together under the term playback order, which means that only one can be selected at a time. Your design in turn would provoke the misunderstanding that shuffle and repeat could be combined in several variations and would therefore be a bad decision in terms of UX/UI.

An increased height of the bottom bar doesn't matter with nowadays resolutions.

It certainly doesn't matter on an iMac, but it does on a 13-inch MacBook air. At least a little bit smaller, somewhere in the middle between you and me? ;)

The side bar makes complete sense because it solves a lot of issues with the current approach
Ok, that's the point I'm critical of. And not even so much because of the possible 4-pane layout, which in my opinion should be avoided in mac apps, not only, but also because there is no space for it on macBooks.

It's about something else. You are not taking into account that fb2k has other library viewers, namely facets and the library search. And it cannot be ruled out in principle that other library viewers will be added in the future, either by default or as components. And this raises the question of how all this should be accommodated in the sidebar. It would be perfectly sufficient for me if all library viewers were accessible in the first and left pane via a tabbed view. This saves space, is simple and intuitive, but above all it avoids the problem I have just described.

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #14
Please don't take it personal if don't consider everything 1:1 what gets mentioned.

Quote
Hey, not at all!  ;) On the contrary, I'm glad that someone is not only wishing for this, but also showing with his own design what a fb2k adapted to the Mac could look like.

<3

Quote
Whatever a future version of fb2k may look like, it seems important to me that the design not only fulfills the expectations of Mac users, but that it is completely detached from how fb2k looks on Windows. The footer bar was a very promising start in this direction. I have to repeat myself at this point and emphasize once again that this customizability typical of windows is not expected at all for programs on the Mac. I would even go so far as to say that a single, but well thought-out layout on the mac is completely sufficient. Of course it makes sense to let the user decide whether he prefers to see a component (e.g. album list, facets, library search,...) integrated in the layout or as a standalone window. But that should be it.

100% agree! No need to customize the basic layout. Especially since I introduced the tabs in the toolbar where users can quickly switch between the library, playlists (manager) and the radio. The app (any app) should be perfectly usable from the get go without any initial configuration and/or onboarding of any kind.

Quote
A simple 3-pane layout, one where the individual panes are not even split vertically, would be ideal. I remember when I was active here, it was always said that fb2k is not about customizability. the credo was: make simple things easy and make complex things possible. Ultimately, however, it is the case in the windows world that it does seem to be about that for most users. And that is a fundamental difference between windows and mac.

The pane width should be resizable by simply dragging the pane dividers left or right based on individual preference.

- Album name next to the library filter makes no sense because it's the library view and not the playlist. Album name etc. will be shown in the playlist and in the bottom bar.

Quote
That's a misunderstanding! I didn't mean the album name, but the name of the album list view. However, in the last edition of your work you have already inserted a drop-down menu for selecting the view, which makes the name readable. Two suggestions: 1. the menu should be large enough so that you can read the full name of the view. And 2. there would be enough space in the top bar right next to the name “library”. If the search field is used temporarily, the drop-down menu can be covered.

I thought already that this was a potential misunderstanding. The dropdown width should of course adapt to the content width. It's an issue with that particular Figma component. ;-) You mean the "Library" text should be covered!? I had that at some point and was undecided in regards to this. Will look into this once more. I also think it's the right approach to free up as much space as possible for the search. Will probably revert that to the previous version.

- Shuffle and repeat are two very different things. Makes no sense to mash those things together.

Quote
Yes and no. I know what you mean, most players allow you to set shuffle and repeat independently of each other. But this is not the case in fb2k. They are already mashed together under the term playback order, which means that only one can be selected at a time. Your design in turn would provoke the misunderstanding that shuffle and repeat could be combined in several variations and would therefore be a bad decision in terms of UX/UI.

I thought this through. A selected repeat mode would override any active shuffle mode and vise versa. This is very easy to implement and is still better then mashing things into one ugly dropdown and/or a non self explanatory icon. Dropdowns are a last resort pattern and you won't see any if at all in well designed applications.

An increased height of the bottom bar doesn't matter with nowadays resolutions.

Quote
It certainly doesn't matter on an iMac, but it does on a 13-inch MacBook air. At least a little bit smaller, somewhere in the middle between you and me? ;)

I will look into this and potentially come up with something else.

The side bar makes complete sense because it solves a lot of issues with the current approach
Quote
Ok, that's the point I'm critical of. And not even so much because of the possible 4-pane layout, which in my opinion should be avoided in mac apps, not only, but also because there is no space for it on macBooks.

Having the library views in the sidebar is better for the following reasons: 1. All the library views are revealed right away and it's one click less for each view select compared to the existing dropdown approach where every view change requires 2 clicks! In addition you would have quick access to your favourite playlists and radiostations.

Quote
It's about something else. You are not taking into account that fb2k has other library viewers, namely facets and the library search. And it cannot be ruled out in principle that other library viewers will be added in the future, either by default or as components. And this raises the question of how all this should be accommodated in the sidebar. It would be perfectly sufficient for me if all library viewers were accessible in the first and left pane via a tabbed view. This saves space, is simple and intuitive, but above all it avoids the problem I have just described.

I need to look into the facets (never used them) but I am not sure if it is really true that users want or need a gazillion different views on their library. Happy to be proved wrong. Search is a non issue because each different library view would have a library search on top as shown in the design.

Sorry for the badly formatted reply but I am not familiar with this particular forum and have no idea how I could add your forum nickname to your respective quotes except doing it manually.

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #15
You mean the "Library" text should be covered!?
I just meant that the dropdown menu is in the same line as the library label and the search field/icon. And if the search field is then called up, the dropdown menu could be hidden. This saves having to display the dropdown menu for the different views in another line below. No more, no less. ;)

I thought this through. A selected repeat mode would override any active shuffle mode and vise versa. This is very easy to implement and is still better then mashing things into one ugly dropdown and/or a non self explanatory icon. Dropdowns are a last resort pattern and you won't see any if at all in well designed applications.

I can definitely agree with your last sentence. It doesn't have to be a drop-down menu. Beautiful and meaningful icons would do just as well. My point is that you can't separate the individual types of playback order without causing confusion among users. This is because of the way they are designed in fb2k: the one random and the three shuffle orders do not only play the tracks through and then stop, but they themselves contain the repeat function and play the playlist again and again. This means that only the default playback order has no repeat function. And that is precisely why it makes sense, if not necessary, to keep these functions together. As I said, meaningful icons for each type of playback order would be the solution.

I need to look into the facets (never used them) but I am not sure if it is really true that users want or need a gazillion different views on their library. Happy to be proved wrong. Search is a non issue because each different library view would have a library search on top as shown in the design.
I have been a Mac user since 2014 and unfortunately have not used fb2k since then. Nevertheless, I have followed the further development from time to time. Until 2014 and probably still today, facets was and is a central component. It was not for nothing that Peter Pawlowski himself took over the component after the old developer left. And the library search is also a central component, as it offers a unique search based on a sortable track list: for example, it is easy to start a search according to certain criteria and sort the list to ultimately get an overview of tracks that are not fragmented by artist, album, genre or whatever.

Let's assume that the Mac version of foobar2000 will not receive numerous components. And to be honest: it doesn't have to. It's already one of the most feature-rich players in the mac universe. But I think that the central components should find a place in the layout, such as: radio, album list, library search, facets, playlist manager and maybe also the playlist search. Let's assume that the Mac version of foobar2000 will not receive numerous components. And to be honest: it doesn't have to. It's already one of the most feature-rich players in the mac universe. But I think that the central components should find a place in the layout, such as: radio, album list, library search, facets, playlist manager and maybe also the playlist search. And last but not least: my much-loved playback queue (one of the coolest features ever since winamp introduced it decades ago), where you don't have to think long about how to place it in the layout, because Apple Music has shown that a pop-up is the ideal solution for this function.

(Dealing with this topic has given me the idea to post a request soon, in which I will ask for a standardization of all library viewers. )

 

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #16
Quote
I can definitely agree with your last sentence. It doesn't have to be a drop-down menu. Beautiful and meaningful icons would do just as well. My point is that you can't separate the individual types of playback order without causing confusion among users. This is because of the way they are designed in fb2k: the one random and the three shuffle orders do not only play the tracks through and then stop, but they themselves contain the repeat function and play the playlist again and again. This means that only the default playback order has no repeat function. And that is precisely why it makes sense, if not necessary, to keep these functions together. As I said, meaningful icons for each type of playback order would be the solution.

I don't see the problem here! In fact it doesn't matter that shuffle modes do repeat as well which nobody will ever know in the first place. The purpose of shuffle is to shuffle and this is also the primary user intent no matter if it does repeat as well which it shouldn't imo. I put up a flow on Figma to illustrate how it is supposed to work. Even the shuffle/repeat options could change depending on actual library view which might make sense.

Quote
I have been a Mac user since 2014 and unfortunately have not used fb2k since then. Nevertheless, I have followed the further development from time to time. Until 2014 and probably still today, facets was and is a central component. It was not for nothing that Peter Pawlowski himself took over the component after the old developer left. And the library search is also a central component, as it offers a unique search based on a sortable track list: for example, it is easy to start a search according to certain criteria and sort the list to ultimately get an overview of tracks that are not fragmented by artist, album, genre or whatever.

I got it that the two feature are crucial elements of fb2k. Will certainly look into those.

Quote
Let's assume that the Mac version of foobar2000 will not receive numerous components. And to be honest: it doesn't have to. It's already one of the most feature-rich players in the mac universe. But I think that the central components should find a place in the layout, such as: radio, album list, library search, facets, playlist manager and maybe also the playlist search.

Agree that fb2k for Mac needs a different more focused spin compared to the current Windows version. I think the target audience on the Mac for the current windows approach of fb2k is non existent.

Quote
And last but not least: my much-loved playback queue (one of the coolest features ever since winamp introduced it decades ago), where you don't have to think long about how to place it in the layout, because Apple Music has shown that a pop-up is the ideal solution for this function.

Not sure if I would deviate from the fb2k approach regarding the playback queue in form of the playlist on the right. For me this Total Commander like approach to music has always been the best (signature) feature of fb2k. In my opinion it's quite elegant that you basically create a playlist on the fly through the playback queue which then can be saved and basically has the same appearance as before. Don't agree that the Apple Music playback queue approach is necessarily the right one for fb2k. Or are you referring to the Apple Music streaming service?


Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #18
Not sure if I would deviate from the fb2k approach regarding the playback queue in form of the playlist on the right. For me this Total Commander like approach to music has always been the best (signature) feature of fb2k. In my opinion it's quite elegant that you basically create a playlist on the fly through the playback queue which then can be saved and basically has the same appearance as before. Don't agree that the Apple Music playback queue approach is necessarily the right one for fb2k. Or are you referring to the Apple Music streaming service?

The queue in fb2k is NOT a playlist, neither an additional nor an alternative. It merely maps what happens in a playlist. It essentially has two functions:

1. whichever playback order (default, shuffle, ...) is selected, you can queue some tracks, which are then played in a fixed order. As soon as the queue is empty, playback continues normally from the position of the last track. Example: I queue the first, fourth and eighth track of a playlist. Accordingly, within this playlist, the first, fourth and eighth tracks are played first before continuing with the ninth track.

2. this function can be used to enable continuous playback of tracks that are scattered across several playlists.

A visualisation of this queue already exists: the space in the queue is displayed in the ‘playing’ column of the playlist view. My idea was simply to display the queue separately without giving it an important place in the layout. Hence the idea with the pop-up.

By the way: Why did you rename playlist to playback queue? These are still the playlists and not the queue that exists in fb2k. The term queue also exists in other players, but there it means something completely different

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #19
Quote
By the way: Why did you rename playlist to playback queue? These are still the playlists and not the queue that exists in fb2k. The term queue also exists in other players, but there it means something completely different

I did it on purpose to solve the current confusion about what the thing on the right is actually supposed to be. In the default state (library view) it is a simple queue which can at any time be turned into (saved as) a playlists through the context menu (three little dots on the upper right of the queue). Whereas in playlist mode it is an actual playlist which reflects the selected playlist on the left pane. In addition in library mode a user could simply select an existing or create a new playlist through the context menu. In the existing app there is no proper solution to this issue. I don't think that an additional queue is needed and the current solution with the little column is no solution at all. I alway queued stuff to the "current" playlist which in fact is a queue or should be the queue before it will be delibarately turned into a playlist through the user. I added an example for the context menu on the far right screen so it will become (hopefully) more clear.

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #20
I am not saying that a queue is necessary, nor that it is unnecessary. Instead, I'm saying that fb2k already has a queue that exists as a separate function from the playlists. However, the function, no matter how brilliant I think it is, is of marginal importance in the overall context of the player.

I have to tell you something else, in the hope that you won't take offence. In some places you go beyond improving fb2k in terms of ux/ui and a modern Mac look. At times at least it seems like you want to create a different and new player, where the different and new breaks with some of the things that make fb2k special, such as the playback order

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #21
I have to tell you something else, in the hope that you won't take offence. In some places you go beyond improving fb2k in terms of ux/ui and a modern Mac look. At times at least it seems like you want to create a different and new player, where the different and new breaks with some of the things that make fb2k special, such as the playback order

No worries, I can take that! ;-) Regarding the playback order and it is the last time I gonna comment on that. While it is a great idea, it is poorly executed:

1. A new user if he hasn't studied forum posts and/or changelogs over the years will never know that the shuffle modes do repeat which they shouldn't by default. It should be a deliberate choice by the user if they should repeat or not which can be solved elegantly by my proposal

2. If a (new) user seeks for repeat and/or shuffle he should be addressed with a clear and self explanatory function and not some arbitrary "playback order" with non self explanatory shuffle modes.

You seem to be too attached to the status quo and got used over the years to some not so well executed things. ;-) I updated the playback order menus so it hopefully becomes more clear how it could solve the mentioned problems above. The menu entries and logic is by no means final but it should convey the solution well enough.

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #22

You seem to be too attached to the status quo and got used over the years to some not so well executed things.

Not really ;) If it were up to me, the shuffle functions could definitely be separated from the repeat functions. My point was rather that it's not like that. The question is, of course, to what extent your redesign is not just that, but also a proposal to change core functions.

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #23
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Not really ;) If it were up to me, the shuffle functions could definitely be separated from the repeat functions. My point was rather that it's not like that. The question is, of course, to what extent your redesign is not just that, but also a proposal to change core functions.

Artistic freedom! ;-) But seriously, which function do you miss? If it's in regards to "Current Playlist" vs. "Custom Playlist" vs. "Playback Queue" I am open for discussion and happy to be challenged. In my opinion the existing solution is a confusing mess. You can add a track to the "Current Playlist" which is kinda a temporary playlist and to a queue at the same time! Why? What's the point exactly? And even worse you are currently not even able to switch between those two views in a transparent way. My thinking is that you start with a "Playback (Queue)" view unless you decide to select or create a playlist deliberately. Having "Current Playlist" and a "Playback Queue" at the same time feels kinda wrong and redundant to me. But maybe there is an easy fix to it.

P.S. I reverted the "Playlist Queue" title to "Playlist again. Maybe it's just about a better way to deal with the Queue

Re: Design improvements from a professional UX Designer and foobar2000 fan

Reply #24
Solved the Queue! ;-)