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Topic: Matrix Reloaded (Read 12426 times) previous topic - next topic
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Matrix Reloaded

Reply #25 –
Quote
and above recycled in
Roland Emmerich's The 13th Floor (ca 1998?)
I really enjoyed that movie...reminded me of Dark City in  a few respects and they did a good job showing LA circa the late 1930's.
edit : damn typo
 

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #26 –
I thought the movie was pretty shallow compared to part 1. On it's own it would have been a cool action movie with great effects, but not much more.

The so called philosphical talk was pretty flat. Morpheus' speech as well.
The rave and sex scene... so this is what people do when they are "free"... act like cave men. I allways wondered.. if you were in those life support chambers... wouldn't they stick some tubing up your butt and genitals? I imagine that could impede your future sex life.
The Berlucci chick? She pissed off Trinity for 30 seconds and was irrelevant after that. So much for stealing Neo's love.
Were you actually ever scared for one of the characters? Sure, I mean Trinity was shot in Neo's dream alot. But Neo vs 100x Smith? He can handle it.. no problem. Morpheus vs agent on truck? No problem either. Just need to hold him off till Neo flies along. The twins? No big deal. The characters themselves were never scared.. so why should I be? In Matrix 1 there was a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes which the protaginists weren't aware of. That was scarry. (Like the arrest scene right at the beginning with the agents showing up).
The architect? Heh, I wanted to shout "It's GOD, man! Wickeeed!!" but I controlled myself. At least his speech had some interesting content.
What's up with that young guy who worships Neo? He's just that obnoxious fellow. The guy you want to yell at: "Get lost, idiot!"
Why does Neo fly? Can't he just teleport? (OK, minor issue)

It started to get interesting during the last 20 minutes. The implications of a Matrix in the Matrix (the hint of the spoon he was given as well). Not the fact that he could stop the sentinels, much more that he could feel them is important here. That was where the plot advanced. The action scenes where well done of course. The CG didn't bother me much (the 100 Smiths was a bit obvious sometimes though).

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #27 –
Quote
It started to get interesting during the last 20 minutes. The implications of a Matrix in the Matrix (the hint of the spoon he was given as well). Not the fact that he could stop the sentinels, much more that he could feel them is important here. That was where the plot advanced.

I actually thought this part was getting pretty derivative.  There was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode with the exact same plot like 15 years ago.  I don't remember the details, but someone is inside a computer simulation of the Enterprise which tries to trick him into giving up some access codes, he realizes it eventually somehow and the simulation disappears and he's in a Romulan jail (where they were trying to trick him into giving up the access codes), and then at some point he realizes this too is a computer simulation.

So the "matrix within a matrix" thing seems like they just ripped that off.

As for the action scenes, I thought they were boring as hell, went on too long, and made no sense.  The freeway scene was ridiculous (the guy was shooting an automatic rifle at them for quite a few minutes and somehow didn't manage to hit anyone, despite no attempts to duck or avoid it), the 100 agent smith scene was boring, obviously gratuitious, and made no sense at all (why did he wait 10 minutes before flying off instead of just flying off at the beginning?), and just in general all the fight scenes should've been about 90% shorter.

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #28 –
Quote
[condensed]
Star Trek: The Next Generation episode
So the "matrix within a matrix" thing seems like they just ripped that off.

As for the action scenes, I thought they were boring as hell, went on too long, and made no sense.

The "Simulation in Simulation" is pretty old, admitted. There's also a nother TNG episode, where this holodec professor figure tries to take over enterprise and holds the captain hostage. He wants to be released into the real world. Don't remember the details but the name was "Ship in a bottle" iirc. Another movie which plays with this motive is "eXistenZ" (which imo sucked). I still think the idea still holds it's merrits. Especially when you want to escape these recursive realities. You think you are free for such a long time and then - bam! - you realize you have been tricked yet again. That's pretty nasty for ones psyche.

I liked the action scenes for what they were and as such enjoyed most of them. 100 Smiths may have been excessive, but imo done well. Especially when Neo grabbed for the pole and started smashing up Mr. Smith really bad. (Notice how the pole never gets any dents:)) That scene was cool.

As for the flying bullets with noone getting hurt. That can be said for many movies but it did bother me to some extent. You should think that someone who can dodge bullets knows how to aim. I suspect the main reason why most action scenes were boring was because you didn't have to worry about the characters. It's like playing games in god mode. Watch your adrenalin once you stop cheating. This might even fit for a 100x Smith anology: I suppose most people at one time or another have created a level in a computer game with hundreds of enemies and then start to play in god mode just to slaughter them big time.

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #29 –
What I really liked about the first Matrix movie was that it was imbued with a good chunk of philosophy and mythos that made it something more than an action movie to me.  Reloaded just fell flat in that aspect except for about three scenes:  The conversation between Neo and the Oracle, the conversation between Neo and the senator guy (I don't remember his exact role) in the machinery area, and the conversation between Neo and the Architect (which came off trying too hard to be intellectual).

Anyway, I hated it.

A lot.

There was just so much useless "plot" and scenes that didn't need to exist.  The cave rave made me want to tear my eyeballs out.

I might give the third movie a shot on the chance that all the developments that were broached in Reloaded might be dealt with, but I really just get the feeling the Wachowski brothers just don't know how to make the same kind of movie they did last time.

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #30 –
lol, a rip-off?? 'matrix within a matrix' is only a theory, we don't know what will happen in revolutions.

Quote
Wachowski brothers just don't know how to make the same kind of movie they did last time.

They probaby don't want to.

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #31 –
Add me to the list of people who didn't like "Matrix Reloaded" (5/10) and loved the original Matrix (9.5/10).

Too many fights & other SFX that were for their own sake (not in service to the plot), too much empty exposition disengaged from the storytelling, and a thin plot serving mainly to prop up the SFX.  Uggh, what a disappointment.

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #32 –
Quote
The cave rave made me want to tear my eyeballs out.


I agree...that scene had the whole audience laughing when I saw it. It reminded me exactly why my friends haven't been able to talk me into going to Burning Man with them.

Rob

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #33 –
- the storyline in the first matrix was rather simple and not especially original; the story in reloaded is solid and all those little allegories and references are great, if you missed them maybe you should pay more attention next time instead of criticizing the supposedly 'flat' story?
- saying there's too much action in reloaded is like saying there's too much romance in gone with the wind
- some people seem to forget what the word 'sequel' means

Quote
so much useless "plot" and scenes that didn't need to exist

so anything that doesn't stick to the main plot is useless? interesting. and what scenes exactly do you consider 'useless'?

and then there's this guy who saw the cinema rip first  i mean, c'mon.

edit:
Quote
What's up with that young guy who worships Neo? He's just that obnoxious fellow.

He's one of the many people that were saved from the matrix by neo and morpheus. yeah he's kinda annoying and i hope he dies in the next movie.

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #34 –
I don't agree Q!. Sorry. This movie was real lame.

Quote
He's one of the many people that were saved from the matrix by neo and morpheus. yeah he's kinda annoying and i hope he dies in the next movie.


I am almost sure he's going to be the one who figures out who is the traitor (this guy who Agent Smith infiltrated into his mind somehow  ) And then his self-confidence is going to come back 
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #35 –
Quote
- the storyline in the first matrix was rather simple and not especially original; the story in reloaded is solid and all those little allegories and references are great, if you missed them maybe you should pay more attention next time instead of criticizing the supposedly 'flat' story?
- saying there's too much action in reloaded is like saying there's too much romance in gone with the wind
- some people seem to forget what the word 'sequel' means

Relax Q!...it's not like you are the only one around here who is capable enough to understand the deep meaning/allegories and references of this sequel...maybe many did get the idea, but didn't like it as much as in the first one.

I don't have a problem with action...after all I knew that I was not going to watch an Aggelopoulos' film (an example suitable mostly for my fellow-countrymen). But if you take away all the "ah", "oh", "holy shit", "wow" etc, you are just left out with a barer plot and script. It's true that it should get zillions of Oscars for its effects (until something better appears sooner or later), but I went there to watch a movie and not just a splendid video game/video clip, or a presentation of the latest tecnhical achievements.

Good movie (in general) but not up to its hype for sure.

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #36 –
Quote
What's up with that young guy who worships Neo? He's just that obnoxious fellow. The guy you want to yell at: "Get lost, idiot!"


I believe his story is explained in the Animatrix series.

I guess I'm not so demanding as u guys as far as movies r concerned. For me
what counts more is the fun factor, whether the film has managed to make
your skin crawl, or your andrenalin flow, if it has touched u in some way.

BTW, the original Matrix wasn't as rich plot-wise as u claim:
-Neo saved from Matrix
-Group go to Oracle
-Agents capture Morpheus
-Neo rescues Morpheus and beats Smith

but I ain't complaining... Plus, after watching the first movie I had no questions,
whereas the second one still troubles my mind.

I don't think that people should scorn so much at the "WOW" factor. Many
highly praised films have all the excitement of dishwater.

If there is something that I didn't like (except the party) is that they made
the story very complex, there are no longer only two opposing forces. Every
program in the Matrix has it's own conscience and human form, and has
its role to play in the story. I find it kind of disappointing that the Oracle is
a program, and I think it would be cooler if Smith wasn't a rogue agent.
One last thing that I don't like/understand is why Neo and his friends appear
to show mercy when fighting. I mean, how many opponents do they actually
kill? If I were Neo I'd impale a few Smiths with my pole, not just hit them.
If I remember correctly, there are not many guys dying of gunshots either...
It should've been a bit more violent imo.
Wanna buy a monkey?

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #37 –
Quote
but I ain't complaining... Plus, after watching the first movie I had no questions,
whereas the second one still troubles my mind.

I agree with that. I love it when a movie makes you think about it for days after you've seen it.

One thing I was missing though, were one on one fights. I mean a fight with an equal or stronger opponent. Remember how awesome the fight between Morpheus and Smith in the first movie was?

And my thoughts on the Matrix in Matrix idea:
I think Neo was in the real world before he went to see the Architect but didn't come out of the Matrix after he saved Trinity. I think this because when they came out of the ship and were attacked by the sentinels, Neo says that something is different. IMO meaning that they are not in the real world. Anyway, just an idea...

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #38 –
Quote from: Gecko,May 25 2003 - 03:04 PM
Quote from: Delirium,May 25 2003 - 08:41 PM
There's also a nother TNG episode, where this holodec professor figure tries to take over enterprise and holds the captain hostage.

I remember that one. It was actually a holodeck recreation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's "Moriarty".

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #39 –
Quote
Quote
P.S. I loved Morheus' one liners:
"How would u like a bullet from my gun?" 

1) It was Trinity.

2) It went "How about you sample this instead? (raises gun)"
That's true, but there was a similar line from Morpheus in the movie. IIRC, it was in response to Smith saying something about wanting everything, and the response was, "Then how about a bullet from this gun?"...

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #41 –
Well for me it was everything I could have hoped for, personally I think half the reason so many people have been disappointed is they let the hype get to them. Best way to kill a movie imo. I also think that the first movie has taken on such a cult status that it's virtually impossible to satiate some rabid fans and no wonder they're disappointed when everything they thought they knew about the matrix has been turned on it's head. I also find it quite funny how everyone is some kind of amatuer film maker/critic, like they know what it takes to make a movie  If I hear another comment like 'well this scene could have had 5 mins cut from it' I think my head will explode 
Your all entitled to your opinions however so don't take what I say to heart.

Personally I thought the Zion scenes were very important to the whole movie because you get to see the real human aspects of living in that time. Neo may be godlike in the Matrix but in real life he's a normal human just like you and me (maybe not but we don't know yet). Maybe the fact some people didn't get this part of the movie is why they don't feel anything for the characters while fighting in the movie.

At the moment I'm not convinced about the matrix within the matrix idea, it's a definate possibility but I think it's just as possible that Neo has gained some powers in real life.

Quote
SPOILER ALERT:
a. WTF was the Architect babbling about? 5 chosen ones? Has the story been repeated 5
times? Do the machines always destroy Zion but spare the lives of some people in order to
let them rebuild it?
b.Was it Neo who stopped the Sentinels or the ship that came to their rescue?
c.What does the Oracle have to gain by aiding Neo? What does Smith have to gain
by killing him, now that he's gone freelance?
d.Is Monica Belluci the most desirable woman alive or what (drool...)?


a. Yes there have been 5 or 6 iterations of the Matrix already and therefore just as many Zions. The Architect said that Neo personally spares something like 20 people each time to restart Zion (probably even with the machines help).

b. I tend to think Neo has gained some powers in the real world and it was him who stopped the sentinels. Some people think it means they had to be inside a matrix for him to do what he did.

c. The Oracle is merely another device to ensure the one reaches the architect. I'm unsure what agent smith's motives are but I tend to think he's trying to prevent neo reaching the architect thereby ensuring the destruction of the matrix. This is assuming he was the person intending to assasinate neo.

d. Trinity already has my heart 

Anyway, I'm definately seeing this again in the next week or so and I don't know how I'll manage to wait till November
Watch out where the huskies go,
Don't you eat that yellow snow

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #42 –
I enjoyed Reloaded. I think that if Reloaded had been produced before the original, the original would catch every bit as much flak as Reloaded is now, with maybe one or two points where the original is better. But this topic's been argued to death.

[Edit] And about the nested Matrices theory: It's complete, utter hogwash. If the machines were really thinking, they'd do exactly that, then once there have been enough people freed, just shut the thing down/kill its inhabitants. That way there's no need for any Sentinels or any other resource hogs. Even if that idea is completely bunk/unverifiable, Occam's Razor minces the nested theory into nice little bits. [/Edit]

What I wanted to add to the discussion is this: If you want to see a movie that will mess with your mind, rent Adaptation (starring Nicolas Cage). Tough through it all, because it's about 2 hours long, and it's hard to stay motivated to finish the film, especially though the first hour. No weird trick ending or anything, so don't expect the enjoyment to come then. Wait maybe an hour or so; let the movie really sit on your mind for a bit.

Then analyze it. Really, there are so many levels and intricacies to that movie that you will not catch all of them. The writing is on par, or possibly better than, the writing/directing of Kubrick (He had a way of twisting stories that weren't his enough to count as individual works, IMO). The directing is sub par, sadly, but then again, it's not directed by Kubrick.

This movie classifies as a true work of art. It rivals literature. And it gave pretty good performances, all around.

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #43 –
Quote
Anyway, I'm definately seeing this again in the next week or so and I don't know how I'll manage to wait till November 


Wanna see it together? 

Quote
d. Trinity already has my heart 


Well, if I had to choose between saving Trinity or the entire human race,
I'd definitely go for Trinity! Screw the world!
Wanna buy a monkey?

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #44 –
Quote
Personally I thought the Zion scenes were very important to the whole movie because you get to see the real human aspects of living in that time.


They are important. The problem is, I think, not so much that people don't understand why the scenes where in the movie, it's that the film makers opted for such a cheesy depiction of what life is supposed to be like in Zion.

Rob

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #45 –
I saw it last weekend and most say the graphics were awesome.....It was pretty cool I didn't like the end I don't wanna wait to see what happend...They could still make the 3rd one without this one ending (to be continued) It still was really kewl........

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #46 –
Quote
SPOILER ALERT:
a. WTF was the Architect babbling about? 5 chosen ones? Has the story been repeated 5
times? Do the machines always destroy Zion but spare the lives of some people in order to
let them rebuild it?
b.Was it Neo who stopped the Sentinels or the ship that came to their rescue?
c.What does the Oracle have to gain by aiding Neo? What does Smith have to gain
by killing him, now that he's gone freelance?
d.Is Monica Belluci the most desirable woman alive or what (drool...)?

The Matrix has been cycle tested 5 times before. We´ve not seen what the real world outside the Matrix, cause Zion is still part of the Matrix. There are two matrices, one inside the other. For the 1% people that don´t accept the first one, they made the other, the one where they see the "truth", become "enlightened" and live their "real" lives. So:

a.- Neo is just a debugger, an emphatic IA (he thinks he´s human) whose only objective is to find the bugs of the sub-Matrix and it´s "exploits" (look, I can fly! and such), then, just before the new powercycle ("reset"), he is supposed to fix the sourcecode. Something goes wrong though...
b.- ...cause Neo falls in love with Trinity and decides that´s better idea to fight for Zion in the "real" world and save the girlie, but in the crucial moment he realizes that he can see green japanese babble falling all around where it shouldn´t. That´s why he can stop the sentries in the "real" world (and Smith can posses a "real" human).
c.- The Oracle just wants to trick Neo into doing his work. She is not helping Neo, nor the humans. She is a "fake" traitor. When comes to our favourite Agent, Smith´s "code" was somehow modified by Neo, and he can now exploit some bugs. His main objective is now to take revenge on the guy that made him obsolete, and keep living as a refugee on the Matrix. He doesn´t know that Neo is not human. That´s why he´s so pissed off.
d.- Monica Bellucci is quite desirable, yeah, but my theory is that she was into the movie just to balance the "black power" there...

Well, I just popped that right outta my ass, but it´s fun, isn´t it?


Enjoy!

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #47 –
as allready mentioned, storyplot was kinda bork, like people that were important few seconds before dissapearing in the next sequence and lame stuff like that (greek mithology, love stories that are so 'deep' just dont fit into such a 'cheap' story imho...), on the other hand there was some cool action in there, actually i wonder what one can 'shoot' after that to beat it, on the other hand (yes i have 3 hands) i would rather skip this one just to keep my warm memories with the original matrix...  B)
PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #48 –
Quote
a.- Neo is just a debugger, an emphatic IA (he thinks he´s human) whose only objective is to find the bugs of the sub-Matrix and it´s "exploits" (look, I can fly! and such), then, just before the new powercycle ("reset"), he is supposed to fix the sourcecode. Something goes wrong though...


Man, I hate the concept of Neo not being human either... Though have to admit that it is quite credible.

If what u say is true, then the two Matrix movies simply show the mainframe's internal routines.
If this is all a virtual show, I wonder if we will ever get to see the real "real" world.
Shouldn't all iterations of the Matrix be identical? Or is Neo's love with Trinity the anomally that
makes the 5th iteration special?
Wanna buy a monkey?

Matrix Reloaded

Reply #49 –
Quote
Or is Neo's love with Trinity the anomally that
makes the 5th iteration special?

Yeah, from what I understand the current Neo (it's the 6th one btw, assuming that architect is not full of crap) is the first one that chose Trinity and broke the cycle.

Anyways, the matrix inside a matrix theory doesn't make sense to me. As someone said, couldn't the machines just kill everyone on the second level once enough people from the first one had been saved? That would save them a lot of trouble.