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Topic: Interconnects effect on SQ (Read 4772 times) previous topic - next topic
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Interconnects effect on SQ

I'm planning to do a test today regarding the effect of interconnect cables effect on SQ (RCA-RCA). I have a few cables at home: $1, 1m; $3, 2m gold plated; $30 AudioQuest cable (that's what I paid for it, it's much more expensive new) and I will also play with some feritte at the end of the cables. Anyway, post your experiences... will update later today with RMAA 5.0 results on a 24/96 M-Audio Delta Card.

Edit: I will also mention which one I like for listening but I have to see which fares better when 'properly' testing

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #1 –
I think I hear a difference with Monster cables connecting my DVD player's audio to the TV set, vs. a set of "regular" cheapo RCA cables, but it could just be my imagination.

The only case I'm sure of is with my turntable, but it's a result of cable capacitance combined with a moving magnet phono cartridge (e.g. shortening the cables 'brightened' the sound).  It seems to me that in most cases, interconnects shouldn't make much difference, unless it involved resistance to EMI/RFI (better shielding, grounding, etc).

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #2 –
Back in 1993 I participated in a small audio nerd group. We tested a handful of different cables with low end hifi (what we got). There were only minor differences - some of them might not have been real - except for a $40 Tara Labs cable. It sounded noticable different. After listening to it several times, we agreed that is sounded worse than the others. Mid-range was softer, which was quite good because the room acounstics were less than  perfect. But high-range seemed to be gone and low-end had no "punch". So I guess it is possible to engineer a cable that sound very different - but not neccesarily better.

A year ago I did a similar test with a friend. We compared the following cables on a high end system in a room with decent acoustics:

- $230 AudioQuest cable
- $60 AudioQuest cable
- Home made interconnect using cat5
- Standard interconnect from Sony ES (gold plated)
- Standard interconect from cheap/crappy Fisher system anno 1987

Both AudioQuest cables have arrows on them, indicating which way the sound should travel. Shielding is only connected at one end. They also had gold pladed plugs.

The home made cat5 cable was made with one cable per channel - full colour used for signal, half-colour for shield. Shield connected at both ends.

All cables, 1 meter.

Difference: None that we could hear.

My friend felt pretty stupid having paid $230 for that cable. He has later dropped his CD player and is using it to connect TV to amplifier... I have five of the $60 cables - I feel equally stupid.

I am not buying more expensive interconnects. However: Getting new speaker cables made a vast difference (or manybe I am insane).

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #3 –
Quote
will update later today with RMAA 5.0 results on a 24/96 M-Audio Delta Card.

I can advance what you will get: no differences. Or at least, not better performance with the more expensive cables compared to the cheap ones.

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #4 –
Quote
I can advance what you will get: no differences. Or at least, not better performance with the more expensive cables compared to the cheap ones.

Actually, it's worse performance on the 'expensive' ones:

http://zion.thedot.net/~lucian.pescaru/

Legend:

2m, $3, Gold plated/Ferite = 'cheap' cable, gold plated connects with feritte at receiving end, 2m long
1,5m, $30, Audioquest = was smthing like $100 when brand new few years ago; 1.5 m long
2m, $3, Gold Plated =  'cheap' cable, gold plated connects, 2m long
1m, $1 = cheapest cable I could find around..., 1m long

Actually, I find that my listening based opinions to be exactly the opposite of what the test shows...  any ideas?

Don't buy expensive stuff for interconnects... unless you find (like most people do)  slightly distorted sound better... heh... guess I should try ABX-ing it but would do me no good as I wouldn't be able to distinguish between the things

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #5 –
In order to listen to cinch cables, a good way is to use to tape loop of an ampli.

Say that you've got a transparent cable T and a colored one C. Even if C sounds better than T, you can spot it out this way :

Connect the CD Player to the CD line in of the ampl with C
Connect T from the Tape out to the Tape In of the ampli (looped)

1 - Compare the sound of the CD input with the sound of the Tape input, it gives you the coloration added by T, plus the one of the ampli switches and plugs.
2 - Then plug T at the CD player, and C between the tape plugs, and compare again CD vs Tape.

If C sounds better than T, and T is transparent, you should hear
1 - CD : good sound
1 - Tape : good sound
2 - CD : bad sound
2 - Tape : good sound

Analysis :
1-Tape sounding good means that T can play the good sound of C
2-Tape sounding good means that C is unable to reproduce the bad sound of T

Another thing : my listening challenge is still online :

3.flac

5.flac

(875 kB each)
They are analog copies of a CD, Yamaha CDX860 CD Player (450 €, 1991), Sony DTC55ES DAT recorder, 48 kHz, the rest is lossless.
For 5.flac the CD Player was connected with home made RG179 coax cables (an high grade silver plated 75 ohm for electronic devices, no one has ever be capable of telling me what "bu" meant exept that it was related to its frequency range).
3.flac is the same, but I added a 5 meters cinch extension, the basic model with plastic plugs, 8 €.

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #6 –
Quote
In order to listen to cinch cables, a good way is to use to tape loop of an ampli.....


First, I'd like to state that my test was in no way a 'documented test'.

Second, as my Revox vintage preamp has a SNR of around 90dB, there's no point in doing the 'tape loop' test as the differences I spotted were around that mark or somewhat below.

My headphohes are rather weak sounding (SONY MDR CD480), I tried to A/B the files in your test with the headphones directly connected to my soundcard, when you first posted it but no luck.

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #7 –
Quote
Both AudioQuest cables have arrows on them, indicating which way the sound should travel.

The physics of that is...interesting.

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #8 –
Quote
Quote
Both AudioQuest cables have arrows on them, indicating which way the sound should travel.

The physics of that is...interesting.

There is utility in having a shield (separate from the ground conductor of the unbalanced signal) which
is only grounded at one end.  Shields work better if there is no voltage across them, which means
you shouldn't have current flowing in them.  There may also be some use in having all of your single
connected shields grounded at the same end.  This would mean that your "record" and "playback"
cables going to a VCR or cassette deck would both point the same direction, not both in the direction
the sound is going.

On other issues of cable quality I find the greatest impact is reliability of connection.  That is where the
cheapest cables fail.  On the other end, lots of very expensive cables have very tight connectors,
maybe machined out of solid metal for image purposes.  Those ones are tight enough to rip the
socket's connection loose on your box after a few times being pulled off.  So.. my limit
is around 10-20 dollars a pair.  Good build quality, but not stupidly fancy.
 

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #9 –
Quote
This would mean that your "record" and "playback"
cables going to a VCR or cassette deck would both point the same direction, not both in the direction
the sound is going.

If they make seperate 'record' and 'playback' cables, they can reverse the arrow and it makes some sense following  your explanation. Otherwhise, it just looks like audiophile crap.

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #10 –
Quote
Quote
This would mean that your "record" and "playback"
cables going to a VCR or cassette deck would both point the same direction, not both in the direction
the sound is going.

If they make seperate 'record' and 'playback' cables, they can reverse the arrow and it makes some sense following  your explanation. Otherwhise, it just looks like audiophile crap.

No separate playback record cables...  Just source ->> destination

Grr.. should've test it in reverse... but there's no point in doing that.

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #11 –
The single-end connection for the shield is especially useful when you've got three (or more) devices connected in "triangle". This is rather uncommon, since you are supposed to connect all devices in a starry pattern around the ampli. But in that case, a 50/60 Hz hum can appear. I experienced it, and a cable with the shield conected at only one end did remove it.

About arrows, I've read that if you plug the cable in the wrong direction, you can get an electron leakage and once all electrons are spilled on the floor, it's quite impossible to sweep them, because they push back each other.

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #12 –
Quote
my Revox vintage preamp has a SNR of around 90dB,

The tape loop is just a switch, the preampli is not involved.
The preampli input is connected to the tape out plug, and both are connected to the line in plug selected with the source switch.
The tape monitor switch disconnects the preamp from the source and tape out plugs, and connects it to the tape in plug instead (the tape out remains connected to the input plug selected by the source switch).

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #13 –
Quote
About arrows, I've read that if you plug the cable in the wrong direction, you can get an electron leakage and once all electrons are spilled on the floor, it's quite impossible to sweep them, because they push back each other.

True 

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #14 –
Quote
Actually, it's worse performance on the 'expensive' ones:

http://zion.thedot.net/~lucian.pescaru/

Actually, I find that my listening based opinions to be exactly the opposite of what the test shows...   any ideas?

Well, what the measurements show is that the $1 and the $30 interconnects are picking some comparatively high level, low frequency interference. That's strange, since the $3 interconnects are just fine. Also, the low frequency noise doesn't seem to be AC hum, since it consists of harmonics of around 85 Hz, not 50 or 60 Hz (AC hum). Either the two bad cables were not properly connected, or the connectors are defective, or the shield is just crap, or there was a source of high interference in case of those two measurements. Still, interference level in worst case is of around -90 dB, and not very likely to be heard under regular listening conditions. I'd say the perceived differences at listening were due to expectation effects (placebo).

Anyway, compare your graphs with mine, it's same card, at 24-bit 44.1 KHz mode, using a $2, 1-meter, non gold-plated interconnect:

http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/measurements/M...SIO%2024bit.htm

Note that in these loopback measurements the noise and dynamic range are very limited from noise at the line-in, these measurements don't properly characterize output performance at the line-out. Using a 30 dB, flat-response, low distortion, simple signal amplifier, I've been able to measure a dynamic range of 106 dB for this same card.

Still, it's obvious how frequency response in all cables is just indistinguishable.


A related interesting analysis of frequency response on a regular interconnect:

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_...coax/page7.html

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #15 –
If I'm not mistaken, the above page describes a theoretical model of coax cable, they didn't make any measurment on any audio cable.

Interconnects effect on SQ

Reply #16 –
That's true, it is good to realize why cable has no influence on frequency response.