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Topic: Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B (Read 12161 times) previous topic - next topic
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Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Hi! Please help me find CHEAP Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24Bit. As i know, expensive pro cards like Juli@ work well, but i don't need all of its analog functionality, which i think is 90% value of this card.
To complicate is easy. To simplify is hard.

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Argon on
Hi! Please help me find CHEAP Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24Bit. As i know, expensive pro cards like Juli@ work well, but i don't need all of its analog functionality, which i think is 90% value of this card.


TheASIOFORALL will finess the ASIO issue for many audio interfaces that lack native ASIO drivers:

http://www.asio4all.com/

As far as 24/192 support goes two comments:

(1) Why worry about 24/192?

(2) The cheapest audio interface I know of offhand with 24/192 support is the M-Audio AP 24/129. 

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
TheASIOFORALL will finess the ASIO issue for many audio interfaces that lack native ASIO drivers:

It's latency and stability much worse then native asio drivers.

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
(1) Why worry about 24/192?

I have many favorite dvd-audio it this format.

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
(2) The cheapest audio interface I know of offhand with 24/192 support is the M-Audio AP 24/129.

Now i'm using Revo 5.1, but it has terrible drivers for Win x64.

Quote from: shakey_snake link=msg=0 date=
AuzenTech AZT-FORTE X-Fi Forte 7.1 Low Profile PCI Express Sound Card

Thank you! I'll check it.
To complicate is easy. To simplify is hard.

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #4 –
Quote
Auzen  X-Fi™  Forte  7.1  has  digital  output  combo-ports  (optical/coaxial)  for  connecting
various  type  of  digital  equipment.  You  can  use  any  type  of  digital  equipment  you  like
(supporting 24-bit/96 KHz).

Moderation: Changed formatting.  Don't use extra large fonts.
To complicate is easy. To simplify is hard.

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #5 –
Well, i didn't think you needed the output to be 24/192.

AFAIK S/PDIF can only carry 20bit, anyways. The extra 4 bits on a 24bit signal are dropped.
I think you need to be looking at an HDMI connection.

But it's not like it'd make an audible difference anyways.
elevatorladylevitateme

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #6 –
The initial S/PDIF spec did not support more than 20 bits, but they already left room for it right before the sample block. 24-bit capable hardware with digital interconnects should support true 24-bit transmission for at least a decade.

Code: [Select]
bits           meaning
   ----------------------------------------------------------
   0-3            Preamble (see above; special structure)

   4-7            Auxillary-audio-databits

   8-27           Sample
  (A 24-bit sample can be used (using bits 4-27).
   A CD-player uses only 16 bits, so only bits
   13 (LSB) to 27 (MSB) are used. Bits 4-12 are
   set to 0).

   28             Validity
  (When this bit is set, the sample should not
   be used by the receiver. A CD-player uses
   the 'error-flag' to set this bit).

   29             Subcode-data

   30             Channel-status-information

   31             Parity (bit 0-3 are not included)


Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #7 –
good to know.
elevatorladylevitateme

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #9 –
Officially, IEC958 only supports up to 48 kHz, so not all S/PDIF-compatible devices will support sampling rates higher than 48 kHz.

Like snake said: HDMI. It's the only consumer-level digital interface in which 192 kHz transmission is guaranteed to work.

And, as for DVD-Audio, are you sure you're set up to output digitally at 24/192 in the first place? Conforming DVD-Audio players aren't allowed to output at higher than 16/48 unless the disc is authored specifically to allow higher bit depths and sample rates to be output over unencrypted S/PDIF. Thanks to HDCP, HDMI is apparently capable of transmission at any bit depth and sampling rate regardless of what flags are set on the disc, so this is just another reason to go with HDMI.

Quote from: Argon on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
TheASIOFORALL will finess the ASIO issue for many audio interfaces that lack native ASIO drivers:

It's latency and stability much worse then native asio drivers.

Why is the lack of latency critical for...DVD-Audio playback? What difference does it make?

I still don't fully understand why 24/192 is critical here either, but that's probably for another discussion.

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #10 –
Quote
Why is the lack of latency critical for...DVD-Audio playback? What difference does it make?

I'm also like to play piano and other instrumensts live in programs like Native Instruments and TruePianos.

Quote
I still don't fully understand why 24/192 is critical here either, but that's probably for another discussion.

If my favourite DVD-Audio-s like Alan Parsons mastered in 192 why should i go to compromise if my Dr.Dac2 can play 192/24 without resampling?

It's funny, on all forums where i asked topic question later i was aked to explain WHY i need this topic question.
To complicate is easy. To simplify is hard.
 

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Argon on
Quote
I still don't fully understand why 24/192 is critical here either, but that's probably for another discussion.

If my favourite DVD-Audio-s like Alan Parsons mastered in 192 why should i go to compromise if my Dr.Dac2 can play 192/24 without resampling?

What "compromise" is being made if you can't hear a difference?
elevatorladylevitateme

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #12 –
Ok. Do you want a fast answer? Buy a Creative X-Fi soundcard. You can get all of that, and certified!
The limitations that others have made still apply.

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Ron Jones on
Officially, IEC958 only supports up to 48 kHz, so not all S/PDIF-compatible devices will support sampling rates higher than 48 kHz.

Like snake said: HDMI. It's the only consumer-level digital interface in which 192 kHz transmission is guaranteed to work.


Actually S/PDIF and AES/EBU do not know any protocol differences for different data rates. There are fields for bitrate indication, which only allow the setting 32, 44.1, and 48 khz, but receivers should not rely on that information since the initial release of the spec. It can be set to 'not indicated' for any bitrate without problems.

Bitrate can simply be deduced by the rate of incoming frames. So there is no need to expect any incompatibilities between two devices, as long as the sender is rated to send at 192khz and the receiver rated to receive at 192khz. The physical limitation of the cheap plastic fiber, that TOSLINK has been designed for, is 20 Mbit/s, for example. So there still is plenty of headroom.

Back to the original OP's question. You won't find a non-used, cheap, 192khz, digital only card and if I was a manufacturer, I would not sell one, either. That's a niche requirement without audible difference for music listening. Actual part cost for analog circuitry are not that relevant cost factors, but mainly development, distribution, and marketing. The only people buying this are professionals, which require this (e.g. for the digitalization of measurement data) and "religious" people. Both groups are willing to pay high prices, so why sell down the river?

As noted the biggest problem will be to find a device/software, which will allow to output undownsampled DVD-Audio data. Not that you would hear a difference.

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #14 –
Quote
As noted the biggest problem will be to find a device/software, which will allow to output undownsampled DVD-Audio data.

DVD-Audio Explorer can convert hi-def MLP то 192/24 stereo wav or multichannel 96/24.

Quote
You won't find a non-used, cheap, 192khz, digital only card

Thanks for honesty.
To complicate is easy. To simplify is hard.

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #15 –
IMO, ESI Juli@ is the best choice for you but if you like to check others as well then, maybe,

E-MU 1010 PCI card (~$130US) - http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?ca...p;product=15527
ESI MAYA44 (by the UG, only coaxial is able for 24-bit/192kHz output)?


Juha

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #16 –
Does the E-MU really support 192kHz for S/PDIF? It kind of looks like this is only
supported for ADAT?

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #17 –
Quote from: rpp3po on
Does the E-MU really support 192kHz for S/PDIF? It kind of looks like this is only
supported for ADAT?



That's the reason for "maybe" in my suggestion ... since, because of this picture:



they "say" it does (even their specs says something else).

Not said in this picture but they also have said that the ADAT I/O can be used as optical S/PDIF I/O as well.


Juha

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #18 –
Thank you, i'll check e-mu 1010. I think it has better driver support than my Revolution 5.1. Revo has anything i need in hardware. But drivers... Such a bad fate.
To complicate is easy. To simplify is hard.

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Ron Jones on
D-Audio, are you sure you're set up to output digitally at 24/192 in the first place? Conforming DVD-Audio players aren't allowed to output at higher than 16/48 unless the disc is authored specifically to allow higher bit depths and sample rates to be output over unencrypted S/PDIF. Thanks to HDCP, HDMI is apparently capable of transmission at any bit depth and sampling rate regardless of what flags are set on the disc, so this is just another reason to go with HDMI.


Which reminds me to ask...are there any soundcards out  there yet with HDMI?

Quote
I still don't fully understand why 24/192 is critical here either, but that's probably for another discussion.



24/192 is absurd.  Only Neil Young can hear the difference 

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #20 –
There's only one HDMI 1.3 sound card available right now (that I know of), which is ASUS's Xonar HDAV 1.3. Apparently the drivers are absolutely horrendous though.

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #21 –
Well, in the 70's they hid satanic messages in music by playing it backwards, concealed from the uninvited. Nowadays starlets can hide ultrasound images of their unborn babies above the threshold of hearing within 192kHz tracks. Only for true fans! You just need to go with time...

Audio Interface for S/PDIF output only with ASIO support at 192kHz/24B

Reply #22 –
From 1212m (1010 PCI) manual:
Quote
The S/PDIF input and outputs are usable at the
44.1kHz, 48kHz 88.2kHz and 96kHz sample rates,
but are disabled for 176.4kHz and 192kHz. The word
clock contained in the input data stream can be used
as a word clock source. See System Settings.
To complicate is easy. To simplify is hard.