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Topic: Soundcard, amp, and output (Read 3277 times) previous topic - next topic
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Soundcard, amp, and output

Hello everyone and thanks in advance for whatever sage advice follows.

Someone recently gave me a Furman 20W headphone amp that I'd like to use in my current setup.  Currenly, I have a large collection of FLAC files that I play through foobar2000 using the onboard sound (realtek?) (windows XP) with a stereo out to a cheap (10+ year old) bookshelf system.  I have a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones that I currently use with a cmoy op-amp/ipod setup (great for work and travel).  I'd like to integrate the headphones with my home computer and, given the ~high impedance I think (hope) my amp problems have been solved.  It looks as if the Furman takes 1/4" phone inputs, stereo jack (tip-ring-sleeve), balanced.

Given that I have a free amp and a set of phones, I'd like to purchase a new sound card (as the onboard sound only has the stereo jack) to complete the setup.  Most of my music is 16/44.1 but I do have a few DVD-A and other 24/96 mixes.  I'm not really concerned about 5.1/DTS at the moment but possible future integration (with outputs of the soundcard to another system) may not hurt.  Before I'd gotten my headphones and this amp, I'd probed about trying to figure if a PCI card or external USB was the route to go.  Just searching sites such as sweetwater, it looks like the bulk of external cards have integrated amps, which I don't need, and have more bells/whistles for instrument/mic integration (please correct me if I'm wrong).  I wouldn't like to spend more that $150 on a card and that would really be pushing the limit.  I see a lot of good hype about M-AUdio's 192 and 2496 but I'm open to other suggestions.

To further complicate things, do I really need to take advantage of ASIO or Kernal Streaming (don't have Vista so WASAPI isn't an option)?  Does bypassing the Windows kmixer really improve sound quality?  I've heard that using ASIO can be a bit buggy and that many soundcards don't fully implement this well.  If this is the route to go, can anyone recommend a stable card that has good ASIO or Kernal Streaming implementation?

To even further complicate things, is this amp powerful enough to output to any decent-sized studio monitors?  It appears that the amp has the following output connections: "connections are 5-way binding posts, which can accommodate dual banana plugs, bare wires, or wires terminated in spade lugs." (from their pdf manual).  I'm not looking to shake the earth with bass or purchases 4-foot speakers, but merely looking to upgrade (possibly) to a set of small studio monitors (or use the cheapy speakers from my current setup for the time being).

I realize that this is a tall order, so I'll wait to hear back before I ask any other quesitions.  Thanks for any replies or insight to this manner.

Soundcard, amp, and output

Reply #1 –
Really?  No suggestions?  I've come to expect instant gratification on this site and am somewhat disappointed.

Soundcard, amp, and output

Reply #2 –
To a certain degree a lot of your questions have already been answered ad infinitum. Most people on this forum will tell you that it doesn't matter which output method you use, because no realistic cases exist so far for detecting an audible distortion of KMixer through ABX testing. I use KS, but I have no qualms in ascribing to that decision a certain amount of woo.

Don't even bother getting a new sound card unless you know of very specific limitations in the onboard sound that you absolutely know will be fixed with a new card. eg, lower noise or better bass or whatever. There was an amp discussion recently that covered issues like this.

USB sound cards tend to suck up CPU cycles more than PCI cards, and on some chipsets the CPU usage is truly heinous.

It looks like that amp accepts unbalanced inputs so you should have no problem with a 1/8" stereo to dual 1/4" TS cable.

Soundcard, amp, and output

Reply #3 –
Axon-

Thanks for your reply and possibly saving me $$$.  Output from the onboard sound is pretty good, it sounds good through earbuds and throughput to a bookshelf stereo.  My only qualms are that occasionally, while doing other things, I can hear crackles and other "computer" noises. I guess, naively, that I figured a better card wil take care of this.  Is there any way to measure effiiciency, or to plot out how realistic and/or good the onboard sound is?  I'm all for saving money but if there is a whole new aural experience that I'd be missing, I"m willing to put a little more into this.

Also, do you or anyone else have a good guide for TRS tips?  How do I know if I have a mono or stereo tip?  Sorry for the extreme newbness, but I want to make sure I don't blow anything up or rip a hole into the space-time continuum.

Soundcard, amp, and output

Reply #4 –
A new sound card will definitely help out on the noise issue. That's symptomatic of poor power supply rejection which is endemic to onboard sound. Unless you have an outboard DAC buying a new sound card is generally the best (and cheapest) solution.

All mobo sound has 1/8" TRS stereo unbalanced. Assuming the Furman takes 1/4" TS unbalanced, you want a cable/adapter that goes from one to the other. You're not going to blow anything up if you get it wrong, but you'll probably be out $20 or so. Any local pro audio shop like Guitar Center ought to be able to hook you up.

Soundcard, amp, and output

Reply #5 –
Quote
Really? No suggestions? I've come to expect instant gratification on this site and am somewhat disappointed.
Sometimes, it's going to take a day or so to get a "good" answer.

(I can't recommend a soundcard.)

Quote
My only qualms are that occasionally, while doing other things, I can hear crackles and other "computer" noises. I guess, naively, that I figured a better card wil take care of this.
Right.  A better soundcard should be more immune to noise-pick-up.  And external USB soundcard should also be immume

Quote
To even further complicate things, is this amp powerful enough to output to any decent-sized studio monitors?
  Probably, but you won't know until you try it with the particular speakers.  It's not the size of the speaker.  Different speakers have different efficiency (some are louder than others, with the same-wattage input).

Quote
Also, do you or anyone else have a good guide for TRS tips? How do I know if I have a mono or stereo tip?
You can generally use a "mono" TS connector to connect an unbalanced signal to a balanced TRS input.  The sleeve on the TS connector will ground the ring-connector on the jack.  This places the signal "between" the tip and ring, as it should be.  (It's usually OK to ground one side of a balanced input, but you should NEVER ground one side of a balanced output, unless the manufacturer says it's OK.)

Wikipedia says:
Quote
If a two-conductor plug of the same size is connected to a three-conductor socket, the result is that the ring (right channel) of the socket is grounded. This property is deliberately used in several applications, see "tip ring sleeve", below. However, grounding one channel may also be dangerous to the equipment if the result is to short circuit the output of the right channel amplifier. In any case, any signal from the right channel is naturally lost.

Soundcard, amp, and output

Reply #6 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
You can generally use a "mono" TS connector to connect an unbalanced signal to a balanced TRS input.  The sleeve on the TS connector will ground the ring-connector on the jack.  This places the signal "between" the tip and ring, as it should be.  (It's usually OK to ground one side of a balanced input, but you should NEVER ground one side of a balanced output, unless the manufacturer says it's OK.)


Sorry, could you point me to pictures or a diagram (explaining balanced vs. unbalanced)?  I'm spatially impaired.  Is this an OK connector from the output of a sound card: 1/8 to 1/4 split

Or, put another way, is it OK to set both outputs from the split to mono tips (take the red/white channels and mate them with mono 1/4" tips (or, use something similar to what I linked to above))?  After your post I'm freaked out that I'll start a fire or short the system.

Thanks for your patience.