Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

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Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

2008-06-14 22:05:30

searched thru wiki's, foobar.org, ha and couldn't find exact answer to what I was looking for.

So anyways, I'm converting many flac encoded albums (100) to mp3 for playback on many different mp3 players including iphone, palm treo650, etc.

Most, but not all of my flac's were encoded with replay gain parameters in them through eac & mareo.

When converting using foobar/right click convert/convert to - I couldn't find any instructions or definitions of replaygain processing and it's settings as well as the "when done replay gain scan".

I would like to normalize the mp3 outputs like using mp3gain so that the file is already at the 89db level, NOT just embedding the replaygain parms in the file.

Most important question is: Do I click on the replaygain processing box, set the settings to source mode: track and processing:apply gain to have that happen? Will this work if the source flac does not already have the replaygain info encoded in it from the original rip?

Also, how does source setting:album mode work with all of the different artists/albums? My directory structure is my music\artist\album\tracks.

Does anyone have definitions of what processing:apply gain, apply gain and prevent clipping according to peak, and prevent clipping according to peak do?

How does the preamp\with rg info & without rg info work?

Lastly, what does the option of converter setup\replaygain-scan output files as album do? Does it put the replaygain parameters in the resulting mp3 comments file and if so, how does it know the artists/album splits?

Thanks in advance for anyones help.

Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

Reply #1 – 2008-06-15 01:04:03

Quote from: rme on 2008-06-14 22:05:30

I would like to normalize the mp3 outputs like using mp3gain so that the file is already at the 89db level, NOT just embedding the replaygain parms in the file.

That is what the "ReplayGain Processing" option is for in the converter set up window.

the "When done, ReplayGain-scan output files as albums" option only stores the tags in the file.

Quote from: rme on 2008-06-14 22:05:30

Does anyone have definitions of what processing:apply gain, apply gain and prevent clipping according to peak, and prevent clipping according to peak do?

http://replaygain.hydrogenaudio.org/player_clipping.html

Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

Reply #2 – 2008-06-15 17:20:32

Great, thanks. As I had hoped.

Will it calculate it's own replaygain parameters or must the original flac file have replaygain already in it's parms?

Is apply gain or apply gain and prevent clipping ccording to peak recommended? Anyone know what prevent clipping according to peak does?

Also,

Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

Reply #3 – 2008-06-15 20:02:40

Quote from: rme on 2008-06-15 17:20:32

Will it calculate it's own replaygain parameters or must the original flac file have replaygain already in it's parms?

Is apply gain or apply gain and prevent clipping according to peak recommended? Anyone know what prevent clipping according to peak does?

Pretty certain it won't scan for RG when converting. You still need to scan for replaygain or it'll just apply the default pre-amp for files without RG if you don't have RG on a particular file. Simply select all (Ctrl-A) for the whole playlist you wish to convert or for your whole collection, then right-click and scan them from the Replaygain sub-menu. It'll use the tags to work out which albums belong together.

It usually won't scan files that already have full RG info in tags so won't waste time on those.

For some double-albums, I select the tracks of both CD1 and CD2 and "Scan selection as single album", though it's usually close enough not to bother.

I usually apply Album Gain instead of Track Gain in case I listen to a whole album, unless I know I'm only shuffling (and even when shuffling Album Gain is very good).

As for clipping, FLAC files can't clip when decoded unless a positive gain is applied, so as most RG values are negative, you'll be fine. A few very quiet tracks on modern (loud) albums might clip when track-gained but not when album-gained. I have a few classical albums which clip because a positive gain is applied but usually only momentarily during a loud percussive crescendo such that I can't ABX the difference.

I'd be tempted not to prevent clipping, but perhaps to employ the Advanced Limiter at the end of the converter's DSP chain. This look-ahead DSP won't modify anything unless clipping would actually occur then tries to minimise the distortion by applying soft peak limiting at and around the time of the excessive peak. You then cannot pass any hard-clipped data to the MP3 encoder even with a positive gain applied.

As a side note, it's possible for an MP3 to contain higher peaks than the WAV/PCM data fed into the encoder, but any of these that clip, esp the few that you'll have at an 89 dB RG target, are highly likely to be inaudible because they'll be so brief (often only one sample amid a cacophony of sound).

I'd recommend letting foobar2000 send 24-bit data (24 = max bits per sample) to LAME (assuming that's your encoder of choice) so that the replaygain adjustment plus output dither can have no adverse effect on the relative noise floor of your audio. (edit: it's probably doing this by default, anyway, unless you've set up a custom commandline encoder preset)

Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

Reply #4 – 2008-10-15 09:37:05

If ReplayGain processing is based on scanned files only, that means that there is no way of doing this directly from a CD Audio, doesn't it ?

To achieve this one has to lossless rip with ReplayGain scan then only apply Replaygain process with wanted compression ?

Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

Reply #5 – 2008-10-15 22:30:45

I think you can right-click on the CD tracks and scan them for Replaygain. Obviously fb2k can't store the RG info on the CD itself, but I believe it stores it in a 'cdda' subfolder according to the Disc ID so it's available for later use. I think you can also store the track names and similar metadata there (either you type them in or get them from freedb).

Why not try RG scanning a CD (or just one track) then eject the CD, perhaps reboot your PC and re-insert the CD - then right click on a track and edit Replaygain Info.

I haven't used these features lately, but on very old versions of fb2k it was available as I've described when the database was enabled. The software architecture has changed a lot since then.

Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

Reply #6 – 2008-10-18 09:55:42

Thank you very much Dynamic !
It works indeed. Why didn't I try ?

It works either with 0.9.4.5 for windows 2000 (except that the variables that show the status of RG don't work, but the RG is there in the property window so no problem) and with the latest version.

Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

Reply #7 – 2008-10-18 20:03:55

I have a similar question; similar enough to not require its own thread (hopefully).

I have TAK files which have been Album Gained in fb2k.
I have manually adjusted the Album Gain values.
I simply want to convert these to MP3 so that the MP3s are "irreversibly altered" and have exactly the same volume as the TAK files when played.

The impression I get from the converter dialog is that it will do a RG scan based on the parameters you set in the dialog. However, I simply want fb2k to output the files according to the TAK files' existing (Album) RG values.

Can this be done?
Sorry if this is a dumb question. But I can't figure how to avoid a RG scan on conversion, and I don't know the precise adjustement required per album to achieve this and even if I did that would screw up doing multiple album conversions in one go.

Any help much appreciated.

C.

Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

Reply #8 – 2008-10-18 20:49:54

carpman: See the first reply for an answer to your question.

Flac to mp3 foobar/converter/replaygain questions

Reply #9 – 2008-10-19 00:02:04

Quote from: rme on 2008-06-14 22:05:30

I would like to normalize the mp3 outputs like using mp3gain so that the file is already at the 89db level, NOT just embedding the replaygain parms in the file.

Thanks foosion.
I'd read shakey_snake's reply but had took "That is what the "ReplayGain Processing" option is for in the converter set up window" to mean, that the file would be output at "the 89db level" (as per rme's post) BECAUSE the "pre-amp with RG gain info" is set to 89dB by default.

Thus I'd assumed that fb2k would over-ride manual adjustments.
Have just tested it and I'm pleased that my assumption was wrong.

Perhaps it's just me, but I didn't find it obvious that files would be output according to their RG Tag Info, because of the presence of the pre-amp set to 89dB - which looks like it will take precedence.

Thanks again.
Whether or not I found it misleading fb2k is doing the sensible thing (and doing it well); which is the most important thing.

Cheers.

C.

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