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Topic: What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette) (Read 38214 times) previous topic - next topic
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What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #25 –
The 581 is only likely to be of value to a collector rather than anybody who actually intends to use it, to be honest. They built them around 1980 so it's going to be heading on for 30 years old. Nice for sitting on a shelf as an ornament, but I wouldn't choose one over a newer Yamaha or TEAC for quality or reliability.

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

EDIT: I've just tracked down the technical specifications for the 581 and if it were still in absolute A1 condition (which is doubtful after nearly 30 years) then it would still be slightly worse than the TEAC V-1050, on paper anyway... LINK

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Slipstreem on
The 581 is only likely to be of value to a collector rather than anybody who actually intends to use it, to be honest. They built them around 1980 so it's going to be heading on for 30 years old. Nice for sitting on a shelf as an ornament, but I wouldn't choose one over a newer Yamaha or TEAC for quality or reliability.

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

EDIT: I've just tracked down the technical specifications for the 581 and if it were still in absolute A1 condition (which is doubtful after nearly 30 years) then it would still be slightly worse than the TEAC V-1050, on paper anyway... LINK


Wow, you're so helpful. Seriously thanks man.

I'm just racking my brain between the TEAC and Yamaha now because there's tons of threads online where people say the Yamaha sounds amazing, plus it's dual capstan, but the specs on paper don't seem as good as the TEAC you quoted. Damn.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #27 –
No worries. That's what we all come here for.

I'm trying very hard not to affect your judgment, but the V-1050 makes almost perceptually transparent recordings on TDK-SA cassettes when recording direct from the output of a CD player, so I can't imagine it having any trouble recovering anything there is to recover from any cassette tape you put in it.

Having said that, any owner of the Yamaha you're considering would probably say the same thing about the Yamaha. I think that part of the problem is that once you reach the level of quality that either deck offers, it comes down to placebo effect as much as anything else as to which one a person goes for.

It's six of one and half-a-dozen of the other, as we say here in good old Blighty.

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #28 –
Well thanks again for all the help.

If any one is interested, this project is for the early 90's rap group Onyx. They were pretty popular back then so if anyone here happens to be a fan I'd be happy to let you know how the project goes.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #29 –
For sure! Keep us updated. There's nothing worse than a thread that dies without an ending, if you know what I mean.

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #30 –
You know, the dual capstan thing might not be that important any way. Since I plan to do a lot editing/quality enhancing to these tapes, if a part of the song gets loose from the head, I'm sure I can re record that part and splice it in.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #31 –
As long as the pressure-pad inside the cassette shell is in decent shape, there's no reason for that to happen. One way of improving playback from old tapes if the pressure-pad has become defective is to buy a new expensive cassette with a shell that can be dismantled (ie, remove the screws) and swap the spools and tape across into the new high-quality shell. You can reuse the new shell for every defective tape if you want to.

In the case of tapes that have been visibly creased or stretched and appear to curl up at the edges, a single capstan deck that makes use of the standard pressure-pad as intended may give better results than a dual-capstan deck that deliberately avoids use of the pressure-pad anyway. The cassette tape system was designed from the ground up to use the pressure-pad. I can't believe that deliberately avoiding its use is always better.

I guess it's probably swings-and-roundabouts in reality.

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

EDIT: One thing you can do with old tapes to improve play speed stability is to allow them to run through the machine at normal play speed once before attempting to copy them. This allows the tape to gently realign itself on the spools in line with the transport mechanics. Also, tapes can become slightly sticky after extended periods of storage so this process allows them to "unpeel" gently rather than fast-forwarding and rewinding which can rip off strips of oxide in extreme circumstances.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Slipstreem on
EDIT: One thing you can do with old tapes to improve play speed stability is to allow them to run through the machine at normal play speed once before attempting to copy them. This allows the tape to gently realign itself on the spools in line with the transport mechanics. Also, tapes can become slightly sticky after extended periods of storage so this process allows them to "unpeel" gently rather than fast-forwarding and rewinding which can rip off strips of oxide in extreme circumstances.


That's really good advice. Thanks man.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #33 –
Fast forwarding, in both directions, before starting to use an old tape, is pretty much standard procedure with most people who fool with cassettes. I've never run into a problem with destroying the coating, but proceeding slower could be a good precaution for older tapes. There is another problem, generally called shedding I believe, where certain brands of tape coating absorb moisture and come loose from the backing during playback. There is a low temperature "baking" fix for that, which must be used as the very first step.

As long as the spring and pressure pad are ok, the tape will function well enough on a decent single capstan deck. I've replaced the pressure pads in many cassettes. I've usually had an excess of old cassettes with unimportant content from which  I could steal (or borrow) the spring and pressure pad. The spring isn't interchangeable between all shells, but if you have very many around, you can probably find one that works.

I've also glued new material to the spring in the case of missing or badly deteriorated pressure pads. It might not stand up to extended use, but that closed cell foam with self stick backing that one finds in craft stores, and sometimes with sewing or stationary supplies, has made quite functional pressure pads for me.

All this somewhat depends on the cassette shell being the older screw together type. Getting the parts out of those glued together shells, is a real pain, and difficult to do without damaging anything inside. The original shell is always totally destroyed in the process  (any hints about a good procedure are welcome). However, the self stick foam can be applied without opening the shell where the original pressure pad has just disappeared.

A new, expensive cassette shell might be dandy, but if you primarily intended to just record to computer then store, one useable cassette shell could be used with many different tapes. The cheapest shell made is fine for storage.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #34 –
Thanks, yeah the purpose of this project is not for archiving; it's for getting the best possible sound from these tapes so we can put them on CD. Like I said some will be demo tapes from 1992 with terrible quality, some will be tapes from 1999 near studio quality. We unfortunately just don't have a bunch of money to spend on the deck; around 150-200 or so USD.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #35 –
Fast forwarding before playing is mainly to even out tape tension. Playing at normal speed will not accomplish this unless perhaps you can figure out a way to do it with the reels turning freely. Therefore, the fast forwarding process should always be done too (afterwards).

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #36 –
Oh yeah, since two people here just said in lieu of a dual capstan deck to just get a high quality cassette shell and put the spools in that, what's considered a high quality shell? Preferably a cassette I can buy fairly easily!

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #37 –
I don't know what cassette tapes are still available in your area. They're getting pretty scarce over here in the UK so I generally settle for something like a TDK-SA. They've always been my tape of choice anyway so being limited to them is no hardship for me. Recent ones have what's called a "Super Precision Rigid Cassette Mechanism II" shell. It screws together so comes apart very easily with a cross-head watchmaker's screwdriver in a matter of seconds.

It's not exactly the best shell that's ever been available, but I've used TDK-SA tapes almost exclusively for over 20 years now and have never had a problem of any kind with any of them, even when abusing them by making up Frankenstein combinations of guts and shells for recovery purposes. They work flawlessly, both as a medium and as a shell mechanism, in the TEAC I have currently.

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #38 –
Searching ebay for TDK SA, I found there's like a half dozen types even at the same length. So I just bought one of every single one with a different cover I could find. I just spent $40 on blank cassettes

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #39 –
Mandatory - How to adjust azimuth: 

listen to the tape through headphones, while adjusting the screw below the tape heads (you may need to remove the cassette well cover from the deck, or there may be a notch in it to insert the screwdriver).  Adjust the screw slightly in both directions until the highs are the clearest.  It's easy to tell.  You should only need to do this once if all your cassettes were recorded on the same machine.  If not, do it for every tape.

After adjusting, use a tape head demagnitizer.  Be sure to turn off ALL outputs and disconnect the headphones, as you can blow your speakers and/or your ears.

Cleaning:

Get a good tape head cleaner.  Radio shack sells some, or you can just buy the liquid in the bottle.  If it's the cassette type, make sure it's a "wet cleaner".  If it's the liquid, use a q-tip.  Clean the heads, the pinch roller (the round rubber wheel), and the capstan (the metal bar that turns with the PINCH ROLLER).  If you use the liquid, you need to fake the cassette recorder by using the fingers on your free hand to push up in the top of the well on the little hanging tabs.  You want to clean the capstan and roller while the machine is on, so if it's running then you've found the right tabs.  It's easier to do this with the cassette well cover off.

A whole lot of black gunk should come off.

Try a 3-head Sony deck.  Get a single deck, not a dual.  This would work, but do NOT use the auto reverse.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-CASSETTE-TAPE-DEC...1QQcmdZViewItem

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #40 –
Excellent advice on the cleaning process, but the information given about the Sony cassette deck is incorrect. It's a 2-head machine, not a 3-head. It also has twice the wow & flutter of the TEAC referred to earlier in the thread, a slightly worse S/N ratio, and is likely to be a decade older. If it turns out to need a new R/PB head, you're most likely stuffed.

Brief Technical Spec

It's good advice to never use the auto-reverse feature on a cassette deck, but you don't always have the choice. I remember owning a fairly expensive Technics cassette deck where the R/PB head would automatically flip between reverse and forward modes every time the play button was operated even if forward playback or recording was requested. This lead to constant hammering of the end-stops and meant that the deck needed the azimuth recalibrating at least once a week under heavy usage to compensate for mechanical drift.

Based on the above, and assuming that Technics weren't the only people to do this, I'd advise never buying an auto-reverse machine just to be on the safe side.

Cheers, Slipstreem. 
 

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #41 –
It's best to listen in mono (both channels added together, not just one channel!) when adjusting the azimuth. The correct point will be far more obvious.

Be aware that when poking a screw driver into the adjustment hole, it's easy to catch it on a lead which can cause a loud plop to be recorded onto the tape as it plays.

Cheers,
David.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #42 –
Listening in stereo with headphones is just as effective as listening in mono.

I've corrected PINCH ROLLER, in caps, in my previous post.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #43 –
Quote from: seditious3 on
Listening in stereo with headphones is just as effective as listening in mono.
IMO no it isn't. The out of phase signal components from a badly adjusted deck will cancel out when summed to mono. Unless your ears are wired in mono (unlikely!) slightly out of phase component will just sound strange when listening in stereo via headphones - and the region of "correct" azimuth appears far larger than it really is.

Summing to mono make the audibly "correct" region much smaller, helping you hit the actual correct adjustment more easily.

Why does it matter? Well, firstly, I assume you're trying to do the best job possible, which means getting teh azimuth as close to correct for each tape as possible. Secondly, you may intentionally or accidentally convert the signal to mono later - low bitrate coding, joint stereo encoding, FM broadcast with low power or poor reception. Any of these could reveal the shortcomings of the original "not quite right" adjustment.

Cheers,
David.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #44 –
Hmmm...never thought of it that way.  The above sounds right, so I sit corrected!

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #45 –
UPDATE: Just so everyone knows I appreciated all their advice!

I went for the TEAC 3-head deck recommended here, so that should show I take everyone's advice very seriously.

There are some tapes I am trying to convert that sound sort of garbled, but the tapes were never re-used and were stored very properly. Is there anything you guys would recommend I could do to fix this? I already tried placing the reels in brand new TDK SA shells.  Basically it sounds like a worn out, garbled old tape than a new, fresh studio cassette you'd buy from the stores, and this is on tapes that should sound like the latter. Any advice?

Thanks!

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #46 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
I wish there was a software Dolby B/C decoder, but I've never seen one. That would like you do a non-Dolby transfer, tweak it in Cool Edit, and then hit it with the appropriate Dolby noise reduction.


There is a plugin for Winamp. However (according to the author)
Quote
The filter that is offered by Tape Restore Live! is not a real software Dolby B decoder, but it is a close enough approximation to get a decent sound. Because of that it is referred to as a software Dolby B remover instead of a software Dolby B filter

It might be just a preset equalizer without the dynamics expansion, or maybe not?
Another interesting approach here.
I didn't believe that the soft implementation is so difficult.
~

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #48 –
This Dolby B talk is interesting to me because this tape deck has it, yet I opted not to choose using it. Sounds way better with it off in my opinion.

What to look for in a cassette deck? (That's right, cassette)

Reply #49 –
Quote from: DaddyLongLegs on
This Dolby B talk is interesting to me because this tape deck has it, yet I opted not to choose using it. Sounds way better with it off in my opinion.


I think the vast majority of cassette tapes were played with Dolby off because the added boost in treble frequencies sounded much more appealing than the overly reduced treble of poor decoding on most decks. My deck's Dolby gives noticeable breathing and pumping.