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Topic: Green belt on CD (Read 12043 times) previous topic - next topic
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Green belt on CD

I just recently purchased 2 music CDs, which I believe were original 80s pressings. The first thing I noticed was that these 2 CDs have thick green belts on the outer edge of the data surface and it's the first time I'm seeing it! Does anyone know what the green belts were for?

Green belt on CD

Reply #1 –
It's the infamous green marker trick, where people were duped into believing that writing on the outer rim with a green marker would improve the sound. From what I understand it was extremely popular in the 80s.

Green belt on CD

Reply #2 –
The good news is, it shouldn't hurt your CDs at all.

Green belt on CD

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Axon on
It's the infamous green marker trick, where people were duped into believing that writing on the outer rim with a green marker would improve the sound. From what I understand it was extremely popular in the 80s.


Correct.  Many believed that it would improve sound quality.  That trick went away for quite a few years but then came back around 2004 whenever Sony and RCA decided to release copy protected CDs.  Making a mark with a green marker all the way around the outer edge of the CD was supposed to stop the copy protection from opening.  I never saw a solidified case of whether it worked or not.  Some say that it worked while others showed that it didn't work.  Either way it won't hurt your CD.  It is just my opinion that it doesn't do anything to the sound quality and the copy protection either.  I haven't seen any valid cases where either proved that the green marker trick worked.

Green belt on CD

Reply #4 –
It should help if you drew carefully enough to obstruct the corrupted session(s) only. But I would only mess with it after trying the disc on all my drives, and use a black marker.

Green belt on CD

Reply #5 –
You say "belt".
Is it the green marker, or one of the rubberband "balancer" rings I have seen?
Creature of habit.

Green belt on CD

Reply #6 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Quote from: Axon on

It's the infamous green marker trick, where people were duped into believing that writing on the outer rim with a green marker would improve the sound. From what I understand it was extremely popular in the 80s.


Correct.  Many believed that it would improve sound quality.  That trick went away for quite a few years but then came back around 2004 whenever Sony and RCA decided to release copy protected CDs.  Making a mark with a green marker all the way around the outer edge of the CD was supposed to stop the copy protection from opening.  I never saw a solidified case of whether it worked or not.  Some say that it worked while others showed that it didn't work.  Either way it won't hurt your CD.  It is just my opinion that it doesn't do anything to the sound quality and the copy protection either.  I haven't seen any valid cases where either proved that the green marker trick worked.

Quote from: Axon on
It's the infamous green marker trick, where people were duped into believing that writing on the outer rim with a green marker would improve the sound. From what I understand it was extremely popular in the 80s.

Ah, I see, thanks! I've searched the internet for more details on this trick and found this link.
http://www.snopes2.com/music/media/marker.htm

Quote from: Soap on
You say "belt".
Is it the green marker, or one of the rubberband "balancer" rings I have seen?


I'm not sure what you mean by rubberband balancer ring. On the 2 CDs I've bought, it's not exactly a solid green belt, but rather a dark green reflective belt on the outer edges of the data surface. At some angles under the light, the belt looks kind of greyish.

Green belt on CD

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Boiled Beans on
I'm not sure what you mean by rubberband balancer ring. On the 2 CDs I've bought, it's not exactly a solid green belt, but rather a dark green reflective belt on the outer edges of the data surface. At some angles under the light, the belt looks kind of greyish.
Does it look like somebody applied it with a marker pen (Sharpie, or similar) or does it look like a rubber band stretched around the disk? From your description it sounds like a green pen mark. There has been some concern that this can damage disks by exposing the metal layer to oxygen as the ink supposedly disolves off the laquer on the side of the disks. I don't know if this is true, and if it is there is nothing you can do about it now.

Green belt on CD

Reply #8 –
Quote from: cabbagerat on
Does it look like somebody applied it with a marker pen (Sharpie, or similar) or does it look like a rubber band stretched around the disk? From your description it sounds like a green pen mark. There has been some concern that this can damage disks by exposing the metal layer to oxygen as the ink supposedly disolves off the laquer on the side of the disks. I don't know if this is true, and if it is there is nothing you can do about it now.

It doesn't look like it was applied manually by some person as it is a perfect circle with no jagged edges. More likely it was originally that way.

Green belt on CD

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Boiled Beans on
It doesn't look like it was applied manually by some person as it is a perfect circle with no jagged edges. More likely it was originally that way.

I'm still a little confused as to which surface has the green band. Is it the outer edge, or is it either the top or bottom surface? The green magic marker of the 80's was applied only to the outer edge, as far as I know.

Green belt on CD

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Boiled Beans on
Quote from: cabbagerat on

Does it look like somebody applied it with a marker pen (Sharpie, or similar) or does it look like a rubber band stretched around the disk? From your description it sounds like a green pen mark. There has been some concern that this can damage disks by exposing the metal layer to oxygen as the ink supposedly disolves off the laquer on the side of the disks. I don't know if this is true, and if it is there is nothing you can do about it now.

It doesn't look like it was applied manually by some person as it is a perfect circle with no jagged edges. More likely it was originally that way.



Your phrasing is obscure.  Is is something that looks DRAWN/PRINTED on the CD, or does is look like a circular object that was glued to the CD?  I can guarantee you it was not manufactured that way. Either way, it's useless and the result of a previous owner's ignorance and credulity.  If it was drawn on the disc, you *might* be able to 'wash' it off with careful swabbing with a cloth or q-tip dipped in rubbing alcohol, though leaving it there should do no harm.

Green belt on CD

Reply #11 –
Beans'

Please post some pics. 

Andrew D.
www.cdnav.com
 

Green belt on CD

Reply #13 –
That's perfectly normal.
Some pressing plants make that kind of discs.
Here is Pantera's Vulgar Display of Power manufactured in Germany by Warner Music Manufacturing Europe.


The color change is due to the effect of the diffraction grating.

Cheers!
If age or weaknes doe prohibyte bloudletting you must use boxing

Green belt on CD

Reply #15 –
"Normal" back in the day when no one put 80 minutes of audio onto a CD!

Cheers,
David.

Green belt on CD

Reply #16 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
"Normal" back in the day when no one put 80 minutes of audio onto a CD!

Cheers,
David.


Yes, the CD in my photo was only 37min long!

EDIT: I've just found out that the CD in my photo is actually a 1993 pressing.

Green belt on CD

Reply #17 –
BTW, I have one CD in my collection with the entire data surface red and another one with the data surface gold. Are there any advantages for using a colour other than the usual silver?

Green belt on CD

Reply #18 –
With optical media, all the laser is doing is reading the little 1's and 0's off of the disc. It doesn't matter what color the disc is, as long as the laser can read the little 1's and 0's. A red 0 sounds no different than a green 0.

Sometimes 'Gold' discs are released, and said to be higher fidelity, but it is a myth. The gold may provide a longer lifespan for the disc, but no higher quality. If the disc sounds better, it is often because of a remastering of the source material, which could be copied to any ordinary CD-R and provide the same sound quality.

Green belt on CD

Reply #19 –
I'm not entirely sure that a surface of higher reflectivity producing a better quality of playback can be consigned entirely to the realms of being a myth.

If I remember correctly, standalone audio CD players have the option of replacing uncorrectable errors with silence via a process of muting as a final line of defence against audible errors. If a recording surface of higher reflectivity and better longevity (ie, gold) produces less uncorrectable errors after a given period of time than a surface more prone to aging and corrosion, then it stands to reason that the final result will sound better on a standalone player after X number of years.

Whether or not the same applies to PC CD drives is beyond my personal knowledge.

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

Green belt on CD

Reply #20 –
Since this conversation is veering off course and the O.P. has his answer…  I’ve been in the PC business since well before CDs were around as an option in PCs and have seen a myriad different colors of disk substrate in that time.  I have indeed witnessed problems with client CDs burnt on ‘color’ disks that, while they playback perfectly on most PCs, won’t read in other CD players (home / car / portable decks).  The best, albeit longish, explanation I’ve seen to date on the subject comes from Adaptec (of SCSI hard disk drive and burner software ‘fame’).  It reads as follows:

The Truth About Media Color

By Bob Starrett

Everyone has their favourite brand or color of media (blank recordable CDs). When we make a good disc we like the media. When we make a bad disc we don’t like the media. If most good discs are blue, then we like blue. If we make some bad discs with Brand X media, then we don’t like Brand X media. But, despite all the postings and controversy over which color or type of media is best for which recorders, the truth is that it really does not matter in most cases what kind of media you use, if everything else is working properly.

This is not to say that some media doesn’t indeed work better in some recorders. But the main question may be: What do we mean by “works”? Do we mean 100 percent success? Do we mean that recording is successful most of the time? Do we mean that some media has significantly lower error rates than others when used in a certain recorder?  Drive manufacturers are well aware that some media work better in their recorders than others. When TEAC first released its R55S 4x recorder, its firmware would only allow writing to certain media. The recorder actually looked at the media, and if it was not an approved brand, the recorder would return an error message. Unfortunately, not all recording software explained the error clearly, so many people were convinced that certain media did not work in that TEAC recorder. And they were right: certain media did not work. But was that a problem with that media? No, it was a decision by TEAC that the excluded media would not work as well as they wanted it to, hence to try to avoid problems by excluding it.

Would that same media work in other recorders? Of course it would.  It is interesting to note that, on the whole, recorded media, no matter what color or dye formulation, have significantly lower error rates than pressed (factory-made) CDs. So, no matter what media you use, it is likely that your finished discs are of better quality than that Windows 2000 pressed disc that you just bought.

All the Colors of the Rainbow

The different colors you see in CD-R media are a result of the combination of the dye formulation used, the composition of the reflective layer (gold or silver), and sometimes the top coating used on a disc.

CD-R makers uses three kinds of organic dye for the recording layer of CD-R media: Cyanine, Phthalocyanine, and Metal Azo.  The cyanine dye is blue, but cyanine-based media usually appears bright emerald green, because it’s matched with a gold reflective layer.  Phthalocyanine dye is pale green, appearing yellow-green on a gold-backed disc.  Metal Azo dye is deep blue, and looks that way when matched with a silver reflective layer, or it appears green when used with a gold reflective layer.  The aqua-hued Advanced Pthalocyanine is also now in wide use.

So What’s in a Color?

Phthalocyanine dye is less sensitive to ordinary light—incoherent, random light such as sunshine, ultraviolet, incandescent, and fluorescent light normally found in the real world outside of CD recorders. That means that prolonged exposure to bright light—particularly bright UV light—will render cyanine media unreadable sooner than phthalocyanine.

Phthalocyanine will probably last longer and preserve information better under these adverse, but extremely unlikely conditions. If we store information on CD-R media that is so valuable as to merit preservation for a long period of time—say 30 years or more, assuming, of course, that there will be hardware capable of playing the disc at that point in the future—are we going to leave those precious discs lying out in the light and heat? No, we are going to store them carefully in their jewel cases, away from the light, heat, and scratches that are the biggest threats to data loss. Then again, if an application does not require that the data remain readable 30 days from now, who cares if the data fades in 50 years or 100? The important thing is how reliably the disc can be written and read today.

That is the other side of light sensitivity, and it’s a significant one.  Phthalocyanine dye has a narrower range for writability with laser light - the coherent, tightly focused and precisely calibrated light used in CD recorders. The recommended range of laser power for phthalocyanine dye is 5mW, plus or minus .5 mW. The range for cyanine dye is 6mW, plus or minus 1mW. This wider power margin may mean that cyanine media is suitable for a greater range of recording speeds and laser powers. It may also mean that cyanine media offers a higher likelihood of compatibility with more CD recorders.

Compact discs use pits of varying lengths to represent data. The pits are the same width and depth, but their length and the spaces between them vary. The shortest pit is a 3T pit, and the longest, 11T. In CD recordable, the pits are replaced by optical marks that, when read by a CD player or CD-ROM drive, appear similar to the pits in moulded CDs. The lengths of the pits or marks are time-relative, not absolute; that is, the length is a function of disc spin. A disc that spins at a rate of 1.2 m/s while being recorded will contain marginally shorter 3T to 11T pits than a disc that spins at 1.4 m/s. It will also contain more of them, which allows for greater disc capacity, but that’s a topic for another time.

Using laser light to create a microscopic mark of a certain length on dye polymer is not a linear process. Because materials tend to respond differently when they are heated for different lengths of times, a laser setting that produces a light pulse that creates a mark of a given length does not necessarily produce a mark twice as long when the light pulse is twice as long. Similarly, a laser setting that produces a light pulse that creates a mark of a given length in one type or brand of media does not necessarily create a mark of that same length in another type or brand. This problem is compounded by the reading drive’s pickup; optical effects can alter the perceived length of a mark, so that what has been recorded may not be the same as what is read.  The results of this discrepancy between what is read and what was intended to be written can vary from unreadable discs, to discs with a high rate of errors due to jitter. To compensate for this, recorders can selectively boost or shrink the lengths of individual marks by using a write strategy. This effectively modifies the pit length signature of a recording medium so that the detected signals correspond to the input data patterns.

CD recordable technology is complex and convoluted. There are many factors that come into play when recording a disc: the rate of spin, the formula of the dye, the ambient temperature, the internal temperature, the age of the media, the power and wavelength of the laser, and the spacing and size of the marks on the media relative to the speed of the disc—to name but a very few. Media manufacturers constantly adjust the myriad factors of disc production, including but certainly not limited to the formula of the dye. CD-R media must combine the properties of compatibility, writability, readability, and data longevity. To say that a certain dye formula or brand of media is inherently better than another based exclusively on one of these properties is not only simplistic, it is misleading.

There are not sufficient data to show that any one media dye formulation or reflective layer is better than another. The best rule of thumb is to find media that works well for you, and stick with it.

Whew!  A pretty damned long explanation - but I suspect that all of your questions on the topic are answered...

Andrew D.
www.cdnav.com