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Topic: Lame 3.98b4 (Read 18622 times) previous topic - next topic
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Lame 3.98b4

Sorry I don't have the time for an adequate test, but I'm leaving for holidays tomorrow.
I just went quickly through my usual samples using -V2, and in an overall view I'd say there isn't a big change compared to b3. Some samples are even bit-identical.
Exception is eig. To my ears eig behavior is further improved, and if there weren't this little spot at ~ sec. 3 the result to me was pretty perfect. Very good result for such an mp3 hard sample!
lame3995o -Q1.7 --lowpass 17

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #1 –
Quote from: halb27 on
Sorry I don't have the time for an adequate test, but I'm leaving for holidays tomorrow.
I just went quickly through my usual samples using -V2, and in an overall view I'd say there isn't a big change compared to b3. Some samples are even bit-identical.
Exception is eig. To my ears eig behavior is further improved, and if there weren't this little spot at ~ sec. 3 the result to me was pretty perfect. Very good result for such an mp3 hard sample!

Indeed
eig got better. You can still hear smearing, especially on these clicks at second 2-3 but it is far from being an annoying artefact at -V2. 3.97 is horrible in comparison.
At least V2 gets really solid with these newer builds even if it needs more bits sometimes.
Since other kind of samples don´t change in bitrate i hope lame is getting better in handling such demanding parts by really detecting it.

Big compliment to the devs!
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #2 –
Quote from: halb27 on
Sorry I don't have the time for an adequate test, but I'm leaving for holidays tomorrow.
I just went quickly through my usual samples using -V2, and in an overall view I'd say there isn't a big change compared to b3. Some samples are even bit-identical.
Exception is eig. To my ears eig behavior is further improved, and if there weren't this little spot at ~ sec. 3 the result to me was pretty perfect. Very good result for such an mp3 hard sample!

Code: [Select]
Comparing:
"E:\Sample02 eig b4 V2.mp3"
"E:\Sample02 eig b3 V2.mp3"
No differences in decoded data found.

What did you find from these?

#Try ABC/HR for direct comparison next time. You always suffer from placebo effect unless you use ABC/HR.

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #3 –
Quote from: haregoo on
Quote from: halb27 on

Sorry I don't have the time for an adequate test, but I'm leaving for holidays tomorrow.
I just went quickly through my usual samples using -V2, and in an overall view I'd say there isn't a big change compared to b3. Some samples are even bit-identical.
Exception is eig. To my ears eig behavior is further improved, and if there weren't this little spot at ~ sec. 3 the result to me was pretty perfect. Very good result for such an mp3 hard sample!

Code: [Select]
Comparing:
"E:\Sample02 eig b4 V2.mp3"
"E:\Sample02 eig b3 V2.mp3"
No differences in decoded data found.

What did you find from these?

#Try ABC/HR for direct comparison next time. You always suffer from placebo effect unless you use ABC/HR.

lol! my 3.98b3 is 420.934k and b4 is 421.040k
and the big click at second 2-3 with b3 is not worth an abx.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Wombat on
lol! my 3.98b3 is 420.934k and b4 is 421.040k
and the big click at second 2-3 with b3 is not worth an abx.

Maybe you have the first compile released on 2007-05-22. AFAIK there were 3 version of beta3 on Rareware: 2007-05-22, 2007-05-25 and 2007-06-06. The last two compiles have completely identical output with beta4 and the first one could have a bug. history.html metioned every improvement version over verson and there are no improvement since beta2 regarding quality.

The difference you two guys heard are not improvement of beta4.

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #5 –
Quote from: haregoo on
Quote from: Wombat on

lol! my 3.98b3 is 420.934k and b4 is 421.040k
and the big click at second 2-3 with b3 is not worth an abx.

Maybe you have the first compile released on 2007-05-22. AFAIK there were 3 version of beta3 on Rareware: 2007-05-22, 2007-05-25 and 2007-06-06. The last two compiles have completely identical output with beta4 and the first one could have a bug. history.html metioned every improvement version over verson and there are no improvement since beta2 regarding quality.

The difference you two guys heard are not improvement of beta4.

My b3 is from 22-05 and is different to b4. b4 to b2 is much different again and much improved handling this eig sample, even if there is no entry in the history.
Did you try to listen and qualify?

Edit: before more confusion arises. My b2 is from 16-05
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Wombat on
My b3 is from 22-05 and is different to b4. b4 to b2 is much different again and much improved handling this eig sample, even if there is no entry in the history.
Did you try to listen and qualify?

Edit: before more confusion arises. My b2 is from 16-05

I don't have beta2 and you don't have b3 (2007-05-25 and 2007-06-06). That makes us confused.

All the thing I can tell is the fix on eig was included in beta3 of 2007-05-25.

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #7 –
My b3 is from 2007-05-22 as well.
While I can understand robert (guess he doesn't want an inflation of version numbers) it's not a very good idea IMO to have different encoder versions under the same name.
lame3995o -Q1.7 --lowpass 17

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #8 –
the other beta3's on rarewares included patches not affecting quality, and were accepted into cvs beta4(pre).

and john33 manages the lame releases on rarewares, not robert(o).


later

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #9 –
I very much appreciate having access to a compiled binary but I find the rolling binaries a little annoying.  Not their existence but calling them all the same beta when they have post-release patches.  I'm not sure what the binary naming convention should be but minimally it should have a "beta x+" or something to indicate it is not compiled from the officially released source code.

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #10 –
Quote from: xmixahlx on
the other beta3's on rarewares included patches not affecting quality, and were accepted into cvs beta4(pre).

and john33 manages the lame releases on rarewares, not robert(o).


later

Actually, I think he may have been refering to the lame-dev Robert (Hegemann), known as 'Robert' on here.

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #11 –
mmm yeah i dunno (not psychic)...

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #12 –
I often got files at more than 230 Kbps using V2. How comes?

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #13 –
LAME assumes that more bitrate is needed to achieve the quality defined by V2.

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #14 –
Quote from: LaserSokrates on
LAME assumes that more bitrate is needed to achieve the quality defined by V2.

I know but it didn't happen with previous version! It was more about 190Kbps.
I'm glad I didn't choose V0 

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #15 –
Good

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Bodhi on
I often got files at more than 230 Kbps using V2. How comes?

LAME 3.98 is forced to use stricted ISO mode now, thanks to the buggy FhG mp3 decoder that ships with Windows and this also reduces the bits that is stored on the bit reservoir so LAME will need to use more high bit rate frames now to get more bits since the reservoir is smaller then on 3.97.

I failed to ABX the trumpet killer sample at -V 2 which is very easy to ABX on 3.97 at  -V 2 --vbr-new, seems like they have made some major improvements on the new VBR mode.

The new tagging features are really nice you can now add custom genres and album art now without using a tag editor.

Does anyone know what the tagging --tv switch does?
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"
 

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #17 –
Quote from: /mnt on
Quote from: Bodhi on

I often got files at more than 230 Kbps using V2. How comes?

LAME 3.98 is forced to use stricted ISO mode now, thanks to the buggy FhG mp3 decoder that ships with Windows and this also reduces the bits that is stored on the bit reservoir so LAME will need to use more high bit rate frames now to get more bits since the reservoir is smaller then on 3.97.

I'm pretty sure that's not the reason as the size of the bit reservoir gets only problematic for some decoders if the total bitrate of a frame exceeds 320 kbps, which isn't a big problem in the V2 range.

More probably it's the recent tuning that was more about quality than quantity, which is in principle a good thing. But IMO the average bitrate range should be lowered at least to old 3.90.3 APS range, because people don't expect so high bitrates with V2.

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #18 –
Quote from: /mnt on
Does anyone know what the tagging --tv switch does?


from the lame SF patch tracker:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?f...amp;atid=300290

Quote
This patch enhances LAME frontend to write user-defined ID3v2.3 frames,
introducing a new option --tv:
--tv <ID=VALUE>
An argument for the --tv option consists of ID and VALUE separated by
a '=' character:
ID: four letters representing ID3v2.3 frame ID
VALUE: text value for the frame
If --tv options are specified multiple times, this patch write all of
them in the appearance order as the command-line arguments.

Some existing options for ID3 tag can be specified by --tv option
as follows.
--tt <value>, --tv TIT2=value
--ta <value>, --tv TPE1=value
--tl <value>, --tv TALB=value
--ty <value>, --tv TYER=value
--tn <value>, --tv TRCK=value
--tg <value>, --tv TCON=value
(although some are not exactly same)

My initial motivation was just to add TCMP frame (flag indicating a
compilation album; typically generated by iTunes), but generalized to
--tv option, and realized with the command-line "--tv TCMP=1".



later

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #19 –
Quote from: xmixahlx on
Quote from: /mnt on

Does anyone know what the tagging --tv switch does?


from the lame SF patch tracker:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?f...amp;atid=300290

Quote
This patch enhances LAME frontend to write user-defined ID3v2.3 frames,
introducing a new option --tv:
--tv <ID=VALUE>
An argument for the --tv option consists of ID and VALUE separated by
a '=' character:
ID: four letters representing ID3v2.3 frame ID
VALUE: text value for the frame
If --tv options are specified multiple times, this patch write all of
them in the appearance order as the command-line arguments.

Some existing options for ID3 tag can be specified by --tv option
as follows.
--tt <value>, --tv TIT2=value
--ta <value>, --tv TPE1=value
--tl <value>, --tv TALB=value
--ty <value>, --tv TYER=value
--tn <value>, --tv TRCK=value
--tg <value>, --tv TCON=value
(although some are not exactly same)

My initial motivation was just to add TCMP frame (flag indicating a
compilation album; typically generated by iTunes), but generalized to
--tv option, and realized with the command-line "--tv TCMP=1".



later


Thanks for the information on that switch, i had a quick play with it and it is very usefull for Various Artist albums and custom tags and easy to use when find a list a id3 frames.

I used the --tv and ripped a VA soundtrack on EAC with this command:

-V 2 --add-id3v2 --pad-id3v2 --ignore-tag-errors --ta "%a" --tt "%t" --tg "%m" --tl "%g" --ty "%y" --tn "%n/%x" --tv TCMP=1 --tv TPE2="Various Artists" %s %d

This tags mp3s with the BAND tag and iTunes compile tag. WMP sorteted the soundtrack as a VA album and iTunes sorted it out as a compilation out of the bog without using a different id3 tagger.

But I don't know if foobar2000 uses a id frame for ALBUM ARTIST though.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Wombat on
eig got better. You can still hear smearing, especially on these clicks at second 2-3 but it is far from being an annoying artefact at -V2. 3.97 is horrible in comparison.
At least V2 gets really solid with these newer builds even if it needs more bits sometimes.
Since other kind of samples don´t change in bitrate i hope lame is getting better in handling such demanding parts by really detecting it.

Big compliment to the devs!


I played around with this EIG and its like Florida seq sample from JohnV. 3.97 -V2 is heard outside abx at 2-3 secs. A bigger problem is @ 3~4 secs that is almost masked by the keys. -V0 and high. bitrate ABR not very noticeable outside abx.  Anyway, 3.98 -V2 is better, ABR same as 3.97.. Still abxing 3.98 @ 320k was possible without much effort and I was under the impression that 3.98 was worse than 3.97 .. So going above -V2 [ABR 250~280k] has some uses, but going to 320k is useless as there are cases like these that are easily abxable @320k.

What can be done really about this? According to Dibrom and JohnV : Nothing without some major overhaul to the format.

I found something much worse than EIG, easily heard @320k and vorbis also suffers preecho upto Q7. @ Q8 the bitrate was 313k and I failed to abx but had the impression it wasn't 100%. Even at Q5 it sounds better than mp3 @ 320k.

Fortunately, it is 100 % artificial - not on a music CD.

link:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=56186

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #21 –
so -V2 now uses -q0 as default?
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #22 –
Does anyone here happen to know when beta 5 is going to be released?

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #23 –
Quote from: dannyb37 on
Does anyone here happen to know when beta 5 is going to be released?


I guess when it's ready...

There should be something posted by the LAME devs "when it is released"

You should also check http://lame.bakerweb.biz/ for automated bleeding edge compiles from the CVS

But then again, I guess more testing should be done on the current BETA! don't you think!

I love beta4 @ V2, but still prefer to use -V0 (I'd rather use -b320 but too big... probably paranoid or something)

PS: I can ABX V2 vs V0 as well as V0 vs b320 on some music thou, not all!
Do your ever wonder about your soul?
Can it be saved...

Lame 3.98b4

Reply #24 –
Quote from: dannyb37 on
Does anyone here happen to know when beta 5 is going to be released?

today or tomorrow, depending on where you live.
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'