Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo (Read 9497 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

My question is after applying MP3gain to a MP3 tune, will one of the recent car stereo players be able to recognize and utilize the modified ID3 tag by the MP3gain program?  Also, will it apply for a home stereo DVD/CD MP3 capable player?

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #1 –
I may not be able to get the technical terminology correct for this, but MP3Gain modifies the gain value in the MP3 itself and does not just add info to a tag like Replaygain implementations for other formats or Foobar would.  So, to answer your question more directly, the gain changes, or the MP3s themselves, are compatible with any decoder.

First hand experience... MP3Gained files play fine in my MP3 car CD player.
"The way we see our world is better than yours."

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #2 –
I think my confusion is because I've been reading information both about Replay Gain and Mp3gain.  In further reading, it looks like Mp3gain uses the Replay Gain algorithm to calculate the track loudness.
  In the program help of MP3gain,  it states that MP3Gain stores "Analysis" and "Undo" information in special tags inside the MP3 file itself.  Using its own APEv2 tag format.
Why I posted my previous question was because from what I understand is that within the MP3 track, there is a ID3v2 tag that incorporates the ability to store a track relative volume adjustment.  If this is the way MP3gain accomplishes limiting song overall loudness to a users predefined db level?  It would have to store that information in the part of the ID3v2 tag that sets relative volume. The car stereo player (or any other player) must be able to recognize this for the modified loudness level to work.
  Or, I'm I still off base of how this function works?

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #3 –
If you scan files with MP3Gain, it will store analysis information. If you apply the gain with MP3Gain, it will alter the volume and add undo information.

The volume will physically be altered on all players.

You can prevent the analysis/undo information from being written.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....pic=32409&st=25

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #4 –
No, the MP3 format stores the volume level in the actual frame, it's not an ID3 or APE tag (I believe). MP3Gain changes this volume level (without actually altering the audio data) in increments of ±1.5dB, and all MP3 players WILL play with the altered volume level.
The only thing stored as an APEv2 tag is the undo data and volume analysis, which you can make it not do (and remove from files that already have it).
Options -> Tags -> Ignore
And you can choose "remove tags from files" to remove any MP3Gain analysis/undo info (but not the volume change!) from any files in the list.

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #5 –
Quote
No, the MP3 format stores the volume level in the actual frame, it's not an ID3 or APE tag (I believe). MP3Gain changes this volume level (without actually altering the audio data) in increments of ±1.5dB, and all MP3 players WILL play with the altered volume level.
The only thing stored as an APEv2 tag is the undo data and volume analysis, which you can make it not do (and remove from files that already have it).
Options -> Tags -> Ignore
And you can choose "remove tags from files" to remove any MP3Gain analysis/undo info (but not the volume change!) from any files in the list.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364124"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Just so it gets mentioned, we just recently added a function fo Foobar2000 b14 to modify MP3 gain levels as MP3Gain does - but properly

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #6 –
What was improper about the way MP3gain did it?

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #7 –
Quote
Quote
No, the MP3 format stores the volume level in the actual frame, it's not an ID3 or APE tag (I believe). MP3Gain changes this volume level (without actually altering the audio data) in increments of ±1.5dB, and all MP3 players WILL play with the altered volume level.
The only thing stored as an APEv2 tag is the undo data and volume analysis, which you can make it not do (and remove from files that already have it).
Options -> Tags -> Ignore
And you can choose "remove tags from files" to remove any MP3Gain analysis/undo info (but not the volume change!) from any files in the list.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364124"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Just so it gets mentioned, we just recently added a function fo Foobar2000 b14 to modify MP3 gain levels as MP3Gain does - but properly
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364135"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Can you elaborate, please?

This is very important to me.
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #8 –
Quote
Quote
Quote
No, the MP3 format stores the volume level in the actual frame, it's not an ID3 or APE tag (I believe). MP3Gain changes this volume level (without actually altering the audio data) in increments of ±1.5dB, and all MP3 players WILL play with the altered volume level.
The only thing stored as an APEv2 tag is the undo data and volume analysis, which you can make it not do (and remove from files that already have it).
Options -> Tags -> Ignore
And you can choose "remove tags from files" to remove any MP3Gain analysis/undo info (but not the volume change!) from any files in the list.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364124"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Just so it gets mentioned, we just recently added a function fo Foobar2000 b14 to modify MP3 gain levels as MP3Gain does - but properly
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364135"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Can you elaborate, please?

This is very important to me.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364277"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Until now, foobar2000 would just add replaygain tags to the MP3 file as it would to any other format. Now it can actually change the MP3 itself like MP3Gain does... ?

If it's the "but properly" you're wondering about, I'm just as confused as you are.

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #9 –
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
No, the MP3 format stores the volume level in the actual frame, it's not an ID3 or APE tag (I believe). MP3Gain changes this volume level (without actually altering the audio data) in increments of ±1.5dB, and all MP3 players WILL play with the altered volume level.
The only thing stored as an APEv2 tag is the undo data and volume analysis, which you can make it not do (and remove from files that already have it).
Options -> Tags -> Ignore
And you can choose "remove tags from files" to remove any MP3Gain analysis/undo info (but not the volume change!) from any files in the list.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364124"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Just so it gets mentioned, we just recently added a function fo Foobar2000 b14 to modify MP3 gain levels as MP3Gain does - but properly
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364135"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Can you elaborate, please?

This is very important to me.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364277"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Until now, foobar2000 would just add replaygain tags to the MP3 file as it would to any other format. Now it can actually change the MP3 itself like MP3Gain does... ?

If it's the "but properly" you're wondering about, I'm just as confused as you are.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364457"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



foobar2000 handles the files better.
You get a MP3 scaling gain that will affect the audio anywhere you play the file and also you get the necessary replaygain tags to compensate for the inaccuracy provided by mp3 data altering.

There's no weirdness either with improperly added APEv2 tags from MP3gain.

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #10 –
This is awesome, thank you!

And right at the beginning of a very big transcoding session for my DAP!
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #11 –
Quote
foobar2000 handles the files better.
You get a MP3 scaling gain that will affect the audio anywhere you play the file and also you get the necessary replaygain tags to compensate for the inaccuracy provided by mp3 data altering.

There's no weirdness either with improperly added APEv2 tags from MP3gain.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364458"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's a great feature. But people should actually take care with beta 14: there's no way to cancel the gain (mp3gain on the other side stores additional information allowing the user to revert back to native gain, or to switch from album/track gain). Is such feature planed for a next beta?
Wavpack Hybrid -c4hx6

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #12 –
Quote
foobar2000 handles the files better.
You get a MP3 scaling gain that will affect the audio anywhere you play the file and also you get the necessary replaygain tags to compensate for the inaccuracy provided by mp3 data altering.

There's no weirdness either with improperly added APEv2 tags from MP3gain.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364458"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Of course foobar2000 does everything better 
What you say is exactly what MP3gain does now, the only "weirdness" is with foobar not reading the ID3 tags when there are some APE (replaygain) tags.

But I like that it's been added, maybe another single purpose app. that is no longer needed 

BTW: the replaygain tags are not only for inaccuracy. Also to enable you to choose between track and album gain, and to compensate for the difference between the value you choose for you portable/car (gain structures) and the reference level (89dB) in foobar2000 (tags)
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
 

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #13 –
Quote
You get a MP3 scaling gain that will affect the audio anywhere you play the file
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=364458"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is it done via altering scalefactors?

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #14 –
Wow... tried fb2k b14, and 30 minutes later I was reverting back to beta 13.

For one (and I realize this is temporary), there's no ColumnsUI available for b14 yet, and the b13 version doesn't work on it... I hate fb2k without ColumnsUI.

But more importantly, b14 seems to be "gutted" features-wise compared to b13.  Just a quick compare of the properties screens shows there are actually far fewer settings available for b14... ex: I couldn't find the properties section for setting fb2k's tag handling settings (i.e. replace any tags with id3v2, etc.).

But this was the dealbreaker... I have no idea what's funky about b14's tags, but for some reason iTunes absolutely refused to read any of the id3v2 tag data... tracks that I replaygain'ed & applied the gain changes to showed up in iTunes with "unknown" artists & albums.  Nothing fixed this short of using my backup copy of fb2k 0.8.3 to rewrite the tags.

So for now I'm sticking with my klunky procedures for prepping my mp3's -- apply replaygain with fb2k (seems faster than mp3gain's analysis), set mp3 tag types so they're id3v2 + APE (otherwise mp3gain doesn't see the replaygain data), drop the tracks onto mp3gain & apply gain, then drop the tracks into iTunes.  The other bonus, as previously mentioned, is that you can always undo the gain changes later.

Anyone know why fb2k doesn't allow you to do id3v2+APE tags by default?  It allows virtually every other combo (id3v1+APE, id3v1+id3v2, etc.) but not that one... you have to go the manual "mp3 tag types" route to get that.

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #15 –
Quote
foobar2000 handles the files better.
You get a MP3 scaling gain that will affect the audio anywhere you play the file and also you get the necessary replaygain tags to compensate for the inaccuracy provided by mp3 data altering.

There's no weirdness either with improperly added APEv2 tags from MP3gain.


I'm not sure I get how this changes usage... how would you get the file to play with the native gain? I replaygain files (using the older tag only method), and when at work or using my DAP I use replaygain to help even the volume out....

I don't want this to be the case when I play the files at home through my stereo... I would like to ba able to play them at original levels in that circumstance (I only enable replay gain on my work computer and dap).

how would this change in b14 affect my usage?

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #16 –
Quote
how would this change in b14 affect my usage?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365143"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
afaik this would blow your whole system out of the water... avoid at all costs.  The modded files would always play back at their replaygain'd volumes regardless of the software or equipment used.  Applied gain changes are only for folks like me who always want tracks to play replaygained, even on equipment that doesn't support replaygain.

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #17 –
So, just again, please.

The new ReplayGain scans in foobar2000 0.9 beta 14 WILL change MP3 files AND add a RG tag?

What if I want them to BE 95db (for my DAP), but 89dB for fb2k, as I am currently able to do with MP3Gain and foobar?
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #18 –
Quote
So, just again, please.

The new ReplayGain scans in foobar2000 0.9 beta 14 WILL change MP3 files AND add a RG tag?

Scannig does same thing as foobar 0.83.
"Apply ReplayGain to MP3 data" is similar function as MP3Gain.

Quote
What if I want them to BE 95db (for my DAP), but 89dB for fb2k, as I am currently able to do with MP3Gain and foobar?

Set MP3Gain "Target Normal Volume" 95db, then just scan with foobar2000.
Decoder does not support RG(DAP except Rockbox firmware) will play with 95db, and Deocder does(foobar2000) will play with 89db.

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #19 –
Quote
So, just again, please.

The new ReplayGain scans in foobar2000 0.9 beta 14 WILL change MP3 files AND add a RG tag?

What if I want them to BE 95db (for my DAP), but 89dB for fb2k, as I am currently able to do with MP3Gain and foobar?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365215"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If you have the replaygain tags, you can play the file back at any volume you want. But because b14 can physically change the file, if you use a device that doesn't support replaygain, it will just play at what the file has been set to: 89dB.

Your setup will work just fine.

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #20 –
Quote
But more importantly, b14 seems to be "gutted" features-wise compared to b13.  Just a quick compare of the properties screens shows there are actually far fewer settings available for b14... ex: I couldn't find the properties section for setting fb2k's tag handling settings (i.e. replace any tags with id3v2, etc.).
LOL.  I think "streamlined" is more accurate.  Most functionality still exists, but dialogues have been overhauled.

Quote
But this was the dealbreaker... I have no idea what's funky about b14's tags, but for some reason iTunes absolutely refused to read any of the id3v2 tag data... tracks that I replaygain'ed & applied the gain changes to showed up in iTunes with "unknown" artists & albums.  Nothing fixed this short of using my backup copy of fb2k 0.8.3 to rewrite the tags.
There are a few threads that cover this, but Peter's post here is most relevant.
I'm on a horse.

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #21 –
Quote
I'm not sure I get how this changes usage... how would you get the file to play with the native gain? I replaygain files (using the older tag only method), and when at work or using my DAP I use replaygain to help even the volume out....

I don't want this to be the case when I play the files at home through my stereo... I would like to ba able to play them at original levels in that circumstance (I only enable replay gain on my work computer and dap).

how would this change in b14 affect my usage?
It doesn't need to.  Basically, b14 has the normal foobar ReplayGain functionality.  However, it additionally (not as a replacement) has the ability to use the ReplayGain info to permanently change your MP3s, a la MP3Gain.  In this situation the RG tags are recalculated so that a RG-aware player can still make the exact adjustments (as the MP3Gain approach is not as accurate due to the limitations of volume changing in the MP3 data).  Obviously the new RG values will be very close to zero.

So, to conclude:  you now have two options, not one: 1. RG tags, or 2. permanent volume change with "additional accuracy" RG tags.
I'm on a horse.

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #22 –
thanks a lot... I see the two different choices in the menu and properly understand them now...

Peace
Ross

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #23 –
Ok. I think I get it now.

But is there a way to adjust your RG to something other than 89dB?

In foobar?
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

MP3gain modified tune in a car stereo

Reply #24 –
Quote
But is there a way to adjust your RG to something other than 89dB?

In foobar?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365330"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You can always edit the value manually. Just add or subtract decibels after the scan.
WavPack 4.3 -mfx5
LAME 3.97 -V5 --vbr-new --athaa-sensitivity 1