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Topic: Speakers keep getting blown (Read 7811 times) previous topic - next topic
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Speakers keep getting blown

Ok, my receiver went out so it is time for me to buy a new system. Here’s my main problem….I have been using receivers and speakers for my computer over the years and I always blow my speakers over time when playing off my soundcard through the receivers. It happens especially when the WAV slider goes to high. It doesn’t matter much if the main volume is pretty high, but if I slide the WAVE slider even half way up, sooner or later my speakers blow. I try to keep the WAVE slider low, but some programs turn it up when I don’t know about it. It is usually the highs that get blown and start rattling. I have been through at least 3 pairs of different speakers over the years, and  I am currently using Sony bookshelve speakers at 100 watts each with my deceased receiver that was 100 watts per channel). I even have to set my equalizer to extremely low frequencies to keep my speakers from busting. So, this time around I am thinking if I get a PC surround system, the speakers may be tailored more with an even match to the amplifier that comes with them so maybe then they won’t get blown. I could get a decent one for like $350.00 for a KLH system, but the PC surround sound systems seem a little pricey for what I am getting and I also don’t want a sub in my apartment because it might get me in trouble. On the other hand, I would rather get a modest surround sound receiver for $150.00(since I live in a apartment I don’t need anything really powerful that could get me in trouble…although I do like to crank it once in awhile) and a JBL 6 speaker set for $200.00 which I think would sound bad a*s(I’m a big fan of JBL audio). The only problem is that if I sink $200.00 in a speaker set I am scared to death I’ll end up blowing the highs on them like I have with my other speakers(especially when some programs set the WAVE slider up all the way when they run and I don’t catch them). Which setup could I go for/how can I make it so I wouldn’t have to worry about my speakers getting blown anymore?

Thanks,
-Darin
Cowon Iaudio X5 30 gig. It rocks!

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #1 –
Do your amp and speakers get left on whilst your computer reboots?

I blew a woofer in one of my speakers and I'm 99% sure it was because I (stupidly) didn't quickly turn the amp off on a number of occaisions. Whilst the computer boots up a sound is sent to the amp > speakers and it's quite a nasty click which appears through one channel. Although, this maybe something that only occurs with my soundcard. M-Audio Audiophile.
daefeatures.co.uk

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #2 –
Quote
blow my speakers over time when playing off my soundcard through the receivers. It happens especially when the WAV slider goes to high. It doesn’t matter much if the main volume is pretty high, but if I slide the WAVE slider even half way up, sooner or later my speakers blow.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=275568"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It sounds like your soundcard is clipping; in other words, the signal wave reaches the highest number, or voltage, allowed then flattens out.  WHen that happens, it generates loads of high frequency energy, which will blow your tweeters.   

What to do?  If your programs are changing the mixer settings on you,  then you need some hardware fix like a low pass filter between the computer and your receiver, or fuses for your tweeters.

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #3 –
It should not clip, even with the volume at full power. Actually, the soundcard volume should always be at full power if you use an external amplifier, or a set of powered speakers. The soundcard volume is only useful if you plug unpowered speakers or headphones directly into the soundcard.
Your soundcard might be an amplified one, with two outputs, a line out and a speaker out (like the SB64 AWE, for example). Don't plug your receiver into the speaker output, but into the line output, and you should be able to safely set the wav slider to the max.

If the problem is different, then decrease the master volume of the soundcard, so that the wav slider can be set to max safely.

Check also the bass/treble controls of the soundcard, they might be both at maximum, while they should be in the medium position.

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #4 –
PIO2001, you might have a point. I use a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard with the reciever linked into the Front Speaker output plug. I don't see a Line Out available on that card. That would be awsome if I could lestion to my music with the WAVE set on full, but there's no way.  Could it be also the speakers aren't rated high enough at 100 watts even though the amp is 100 watts per channel? Maybe the speakers need to be rated twice as high as the amp output because of the souncard(even though the souncard doesn't have an amp)?

Thanks,
-Darin
Cowon Iaudio X5 30 gig. It rocks!

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #5 –
It shouldn't clip, but it can depending on the characteristics of the load the sound card is seeing (i.e. what the soundcard is plugged into), but I don't think that's the problem.  Try keeping the sliders of the master and wave volume controls around 75-85% which is usually 0dB on most sound cards, then adjust the receiver's volume to a comfortable level.  That should greatly reduce your chances of blowing speakers.  If you're really paranoid you can buy a stereo limiter starting around $75, but that really shouldn't be necessary.  I don't think that Turtle Beach card has an amplified output.

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #6 –
Yeah, kind to think of it does it matter if it is a port for Speaker output or Line out? Because I'm 99% sure the sound card isn't amplified. I'm wondering if maybe I'm not matching the speakers wattage to the amplifier wattage. Should I

1). Have the speakers ratted at more wattage than the Amp?(ie a pair of speakers that are 200 watts per speaker for a  100 watt per channel amp)

or

2). Have the amplifier ratted more than the wattage of the speakers?(ie 200 watts per channel amp. with speakers that are 100 watts per speaker)

or

3). Have it even with a pair of speakers that are 100 watts each for a 100 watt per channel amp?

Thanks,
-Darin
Cowon Iaudio X5 30 gig. It rocks!

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #7 –
Get a lower power amp and save your ears and your speakers.

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #8 –
I think, as PIO said, that you're clipping your signal somewhere.  The TBSC shouldn't clip at full volume.  Perhaps it's your playback software that's introducing clipping.  Do you utilise EQ's in software?  If you do, are frequencies boosted?  Try setting EQ flat to zero and then reducing frequencies you don't want to hear, as opposed to boosting those you want to hear.  Also, if you are using winamp, try lowering the preamp slider ~6dB.
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #9 –
Quote
...how can I make it so I wouldn’t have to worry about my speakers getting blown anymore?

Uh... fuses?

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #10 –
Quote
Get a lower power amp and save your ears and your speakers.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=275820"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That's what I was thinking also, but I also have heard that when your amp is underpowered and you turn it up to loud it creates distortion which will blow the speakers also.

Quote
I think, as PIO said, that you're clipping your signal somewhere. The TBSC shouldn't clip at full volume. Perhaps it's your playback software that's introducing clipping. Do you utilise EQ's in software? If you do, are frequencies boosted? Try setting EQ flat to zero and then reducing frequencies you don't want to hear, as opposed to boosting those you want to hear. Also, if you are using winamp, try lowering the preamp slider ~6dB.



I use Winamp but I don't use the equalizer with it. I use the one that comes with the SantaCruz drivers instead, which is a little softer than the winamp one. I barely have the frequencies up on it....just enough to keep the sound from being flat.
Cowon Iaudio X5 30 gig. It rocks!
 

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #11 –
Quote
PIO2001, you might have a point. I use a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard with the reciever linked into the Front Speaker output plug. I don't see a Line Out available on that card. That would be awsome if I could lestion to my music with the WAVE set on full, but there's no way.  Could it be also the speakers aren't rated high enough at 100 watts even though the amp is 100 watts per channel? Maybe the speakers need to be rated twice as high as the amp output because of the souncard(even though the souncard doesn't have an amp)?

Thanks,
-Darin
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=275650"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Open the Santa Cruz Control Panel and select
  Speaker Mode: 2 Speaker
  VersaJack: Analog Out
Then use the Yellow VersaJack plug instead of the Green Front Speakers plug.  Just an idea...
"Have you ever been with a woman? It's like death. You moan, you scream and then you start to beg for mercy, for salvation"

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #12 –
The rated power of the speakers or the amplifier have no importance.
You can safely plug 10 W speakers on a 200 W amplifier, or 1000 W speakers on a 10 W amplifier.

Anyway, any consumer amplifier can blow out any domestic speaker, given the right source (18 kHz sine for the tweeter, and 30 Hz sine for the woofer, are excellent candidates).

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #13 –
Quote
The rated power of the speakers or the amplifier have no importance.

[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=275953"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Except that for a given listening level (too high), a low powered amp can clip and a high powered amp not.  That will ensure more energy going to the tweeter.


The 30 hz signal you mentioned will allow a low power amp to damage a vented speaker (whose resonance is >>30 hz), but a sealed speaker will retain it's air suspension stiffness below its useful range.  So it really depends on the speaker.

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #14 –
Quote
Quote
The rated power of the speakers or the amplifier have no importance.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=275953"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Except that for a given listening level (too high), a low powered amp can clip and a high powered amp not.  That will ensure more energy going to the tweeter.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=275991"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is not (quite) true. Distortion from clipping is not the main candidate for small amps blowing big speakers. Generally it's because as the output gets closer and closer to a square wave it stops sounding louder, so the owner turns it up - all the extra energy is in higher order harmonics and fire ensues. If you stop turning it up when it stops sounding louder then all should be well.

It sounds like the original poster's sound card is a big problem - it's causing such huge amounts of THD when the wave slider is up that his tweeters buy the farm. Get a better sound card.

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #15 –
Quote
Quote
Quote
The rated power of the speakers or the amplifier have no importance.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=275953"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Except that for a given listening level (too high), a low powered amp can clip and a high powered amp not.  That will ensure more energy going to the tweeter.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=275991"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is not (quite) true. Distortion from clipping is not the main candidate for small amps blowing big speakers. Generally it's because as the output gets closer and closer to a square wave it stops sounding louder, so the owner turns it up - all the extra energy is in higher order harmonics and fire ensues. If you stop turning it up when it stops sounding louder then all should be well.

It sounds like the original poster's sound card is a big problem - it's causing such huge amounts of THD when the wave slider is up that his tweeters buy the farm. Get a better sound card.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276049"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Where is all this clipping talk coming from?  The poster said nothing about a clipping problem, and to me it looks like a gain structure problem.  He keeps the sound card turned down too low and inturn has to turn the amp up to high.  Instead, he needs to turn the amp down and the soundcard up and thus will greatly reduce his chances of blowing anymore speakers.

Set your mixer like this then adjust your receiver:

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #16 –
Certainly valid comments from most people. The reason people are speaking about clipping is that blown tweeters are usually a sign of amplifier clipping - hence the reason NAD introduced their "soft clipping" circuit to try and stop users from blowing their speakers. A speaker will normally not blow from short bursts of high energy (to a degree).

I run my sound card directly into my poweramp and have never had anything blow - even though windvd is always messing around with the volume. Remember to check that the recievers wattage rating is into the same impedance as your speakers. Often a salesman will sell you 100 Watt 8 Ohm Speakers with a 100Watt into 4 Ohm Reciever. What this really means is that the reciever is more likely to be 50 Watts into 8 Ohms, although the comments by Pio2001 certainly apply.

Another reason for your tweeters blowing that I might throw into the pot is that your reciever was not built very well and that for some reason you were having nasty High Frequency oscillations that were causing the tweeters to blow. Did the system ever make any weird buzzing or squawking noises?

In terms of solving the problem of keeping volume constant perhaps you could tell us a bit more about your setup, are there CD players / DVD players plugged into the unit? A simple solution might be to build yourself a stereo trim pot - should not be more that a few dollars.

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #17 –
Quote
Open the Santa Cruz Control Panel and select
  Speaker Mode: 2 Speaker
  VersaJack: Analog Out
Then use the Yellow VersaJack plug instead of the Green Front Speakers plug.  Just an idea...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=275877"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Naw, didn't work. No sound.




I took an old cheap GE bookshelf system(from 13 yrs ago) that I have and hooked it up to my sound card. This system can't have more than like 20 watts per channel I bet(speakers are 4 ohms). Now, I can turn the WAV and VOL slider all the way up and there is barely any distortion to blow my cheap GE speakers(still a little but nothing like before). Gathering from this, is it possible that there is some kind of ampage in the soundcard(even though it lists none in the specs) and with a powerfull amp like my old one(100watts per channel) it is to much for the speakers since with a much smaller amp this doesn't happen?

Thanks,
-Darin
Cowon Iaudio X5 30 gig. It rocks!

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #18 –
You might have plugged the soundcard into the microphone or the phono input. They are too much sensitive for line out signals. Line out signals must always be  plugged into line inputs (Tape, Tuner, CD, DVD, Aux etc).
It is also possible that you have an old receiver (from the 70s). At these times, sources did not output voltages as high as nowadays CD Players or computer soundcards.

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #19 –
Quote
You might have plugged the soundcard into the microphone or the phono input.
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Naw, on the KLH(1 year old) that broke I had it plugged into the CD input and on the Nakamichi(5 years old) and GE(13 years old) I had it plugged into the AUX. I am thinking about splurging this time around and buying a Sony ES reciever.  There should be no distortion from that reciever to blow the speakers. But I don't think that could really be the problem, I think it's clipping somewhere and I just can't tell where(everything hits to hard hard, when the WAV slider is at least half way up).
Cowon Iaudio X5 30 gig. It rocks!

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #20 –
Turtle Beach website speaks about "audiophile grade amplifiers" on this soundcard, are you sure it's not amplified ?

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #21 –
Quote
Turtle Beach website speaks about "audiophile grade amplifiers" on this soundcard, are you sure it's not amplified ?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276366"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



I emailed Turtle Beach and got back this reply: "The Santa Cruz puts out a Line Level signal. There are no amps on the card."

I'm not sure exactly what Line Level signal means but I am assumeing that it is not amplified since he said that there are no amps on the card. If this be the case, then I have narrow the clipping/distortion to ethier:

1) Speakers are not strong enough for the amp.(even though they are an even ratio with the wattage of the amp) and need to be twice the wattage of the amp's output wattage(200 watt speaker per 100 watt channel output). This means the extra headroom in the speakers would allow for the WAV slider to slide all the way up without distortion or clipping. But if this is true, then there would have to be amplification comeing from the soundcard.

or

2) The amp is underpowered even though the amp and speakers are even in ratio. Maybe the  reciever sould be like twice the wattage of the speaker so I don't have to turn it up that loud, thus creating less distortion. But I don't see how this would tie in with being able to up the WAV slider all the way up and not haveing distortion/clipping.

Do ethier one of these sound like they could be it for the source of the clipping with the WAV slider all the way(or mostly) up?
Cowon Iaudio X5 30 gig. It rocks!

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #22 –
Quote
  There should be no distortion from that reciever to blow the speakers. But I don't think that could really be the problem, I think it's clipping somewhere and I just can't tell where(everything hits to hard hard, when the WAV slider is at least half way up).
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276338"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If you say it can't be distortion because you think its clipping... I have to ask.  Do you know what clipping and distortion are?

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #23 –
Quote
Do ethier one of these sound like they could be it for the source of the clipping with the WAV slider all the way(or mostly) up?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276432"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Not at all. Is there a volume slider on the amp ? If the sounds clip when it is near minimum, the amp and speaker power have nothing to do with it.
If it has no volume slider, then it is a power amplifier, and does not accept line in signals, but must be used with a preamplifier.
If the sound doesn't clip when you decrease the volume of the amp, keep it decreased. The volume setting of the soundcard should not be used when the amplifier have one.

There is one thing that I don't understand though, has this soundcard a main volume setting besides the wav one ? It should, and it should be used instead of the wav slider.

Speakers keep getting blown

Reply #24 –
line level +4db or -10db

from my days in internet radio i remember having to match line levels from different outputs to inputs.

ie. PC soundcards had -10db line level and the radio gear we were using needed a +4db line level.  Also, for encodnig we would need to match the +4db output from the console to the -10db line input on the encoders. 

If your soundcard has a +4db output and your amp a -10db input, you have a mis-match... we used to use "line matchers" 

I might be totally wrong on this, so i hope someone can comment.