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Topic: changing from mp3 to ogg... (Read 7079 times) previous topic - next topic
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changing from mp3 to ogg...

hi

i've been ripping my music to mp3files with lame -alt pres. mode.  now i've been reading about ogg vorbis and mpc, and i've decided to rip my music as ogg files from now on, mpc is the best i've heard, but since my mp3player only plays mp3/ogg etc, i've choosen ogg.

now i've been reading and trying to find out whats the best settings to use, best encoder and so on...and i'm only gets confused...seems like there is no standard, or "default" settings to use, like the lame alt pres. mode...

i'm looking for quality in first hand....

can anyone help me with this?

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #1 –
Quote
hi

i've been ripping my music to mp3files with lame -alt pres. mode.  now i've been reading about ogg vorbis and mpc, and i've decided to rip my music as ogg files from now on, mpc is the best i've heard, but since my mp3player only plays mp3/ogg etc, i've choosen ogg.

now i've been reading and trying to find out whats the best settings to use, best encoder and so on...and i'm only gets confused...seems like there is no standard, or "default" settings to use, like the lame alt pres. mode...

i'm looking for quality in first hand....

can anyone help me with this?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi and welcome to HA.org

First you should alway search for a thing called FAQ. It'll help a lot, trust me.
[a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15049]OGG FAQ[/url]
In my opinion it's one of the best FAQs of the world.
No, I'm just joking. But it's still very good and you should take a look at it.

If you're looking for quality go for q 6 (= 192 kbps)
Those are the average bitrates:
Quote
1.1:

q -1 = 45 kbps
q 0 = 64 kbps
q 1 = 80 kbps
q 2 = 96 kbps
q 3 = 112 kbps
q 4 = 128 kbps
q 5 = 160 kbps
q 6 = 192 kbps
q 7 = 224 kbps

I think you should go for "q 6". But if you don't have golden-ears or highend equipment
then you should consider going for "q 5" (or even q 4) It's your choice and a bit matter of taste.

E.g. you should always know where you would use those .ogg files. If you want them to be really transparent use q 6.
If you want them to transport you can use q 4 without any danger.
portable: 128 kbps cbr AAC
local: -7 FLAC

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #2 –
Check out the "Recommended Encoder Versions and Settings" thread.

The "-q" settings approximate to the following bitrates:
Quote
(version)1.1:

q -1 = 45 kbps
q 0 = 64 kbps
q 1 = 80 kbps
q 2 = 96 kbps
q 3 = 112 kbps
q 4 = 128 kbps
q 5 = 160 kbps
q 6 = 192 kbps
q 7 = 224 kbps

The recommended encoder version (right now) is Xiph.Org's Vorbis 1.1.

The issue of sonic transparency is extremely subjective.  You just need to try a few sample songs at different bitrates ("-q" settings) and find the quality that is most acceptable for you.

Lots of people are happy with -q2, or even -q0.  I personally use -q6 (with INT -7) for high-quality files.  You just have to see what sounds good to your ears. 

There's a bit of a debate about this in the "dilemma choosing a quality setting" thread.

Hope this helps a little...   

~esa


:edit:  Looks like darky and I posted at the same time!

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #3 –
I wonder why someone would switch from LAME --preset standard to OGG Vorbis -q6. I mean, as far as I know the average bitrate is pretty much the same and so is the quality...so, what would be the advantage? I mean, pretty much every mp3 player supports mp3, but there are just a few that support ogg...so that is already a big disadvantage for ogg...
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #4 –
Quote
I wonder why someone would switch from LAME --preset standard to OGG Vorbis -q6. I mean, as far as I know the average bitrate is pretty much the same and so is the quality...so, what would be the advantage? I mean, pretty much every mp3 player supports mp3, but there are just a few that support ogg...so that is already a big disadvantage for ogg...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265378"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think there are three advantages (in no particular order):

• Better tagging ("faster" and more secure / standard procedure)
• The encoder speed is tuned (e.g. it's faster - sorry if I'm breaking TOS #8 but in my opinion OGG vorbis 1.1 is normally faster)
• OGG is more transparent at KAZAA Bitrate (128kbs) than Lame at the same bitrate
portable: 128 kbps cbr AAC
local: -7 FLAC

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #5 –
Quote
I mean, pretty much every mp3 player supports mp3, but there are just a few that support ogg...so that is already a big disadvantage for ogg...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265378"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Well, the original poster did say that his mp3 player supports ogg vorbis so it's not really an issue for him.

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #6 –
Quote
Quote
I wonder why someone would switch from LAME --preset standard to OGG Vorbis -q6. I mean, as far as I know the average bitrate is pretty much the same and so is the quality...so, what would be the advantage? I mean, pretty much every mp3 player supports mp3, but there are just a few that support ogg...so that is already a big disadvantage for ogg...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265378"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think there are three advantages (in no particular order):

• Better tagging ("faster" and more secure / standard procedure)
• The encoder speed is tuned (e.g. it's faster - sorry if I'm breaking TOS #8 but in my opinion OGG vorbis 1.1 is normally faster)
• OGG is more transparent at KAZAA Bitrate (128kbs) than Lame at the same bitrate
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265386"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I can't see any big advantage in that...I've never had any problems with tagging mp3's using mp3tag. I'm happy with LAME 3.96.1 encoders speed and your third 'advantage' doesn't matter since I was asking about --preset standard and not 128kbps (and so was the original poster).


Quote
Quote
I mean, pretty much every mp3 player supports mp3, but there are just a few that support ogg...so that is already a big disadvantage for ogg...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265378"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Well, the original poster did say that his mp3 player supports ogg vorbis so it's not really an issue for him.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265423"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

well, even if his player supports ogg and he'll never buy a new one or listens to his music somewhere else except on his computer, the question I'm asking myself, where are the advantages? Or why should someone that uses LAME 3.96.1 --preset standard switch to OGG Vorbis? I have to admit, I know very little about OGG Vorbis...so I'm not joking ot anything...
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #7 –
The advantage of switching from LAME to Vorbis comes when you have been using --preset standard, and now you can use Vorbis q5 or even q4 without noticing a difference.

Speaking for myself of course. Your mileage may vary...

Tagging and encoding speed with Vorbis is an added advantage. Battery life is less though.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #8 –
Doesn't OGG have troubles with the stereo imaging at high bit-rates? At least a magazine that used Q6 commented on this in their test a while back.

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #9 –
Quote
The advantage of switching from LAME to Vorbis comes when you have been using --preset standard, and now you can use Vorbis q5 or even q4 without noticing a difference.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265435"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I doubt that q4, which targets at 128kbps can be transparent...I've used the search function and it seems that it comes to q5 or q6...however, for me it's important that I can play it everywhere and that isn't the case for ogg...I currently have an iPod and it doesn't play ogg, nor did my previous mp3 player...also, battery life is very important...so i guess ogg is not an option for me...
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #10 –
Unless the magazine was quoting one of Roberto's listening tests, or a problem found by Guruboolez, I would dismiss it completely.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #11 –
@jojo

It only needs to be transparent for the person using it, which varies from person to person. Transparency is not the same for everyone.

The only gauranteed transparency is lossless.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #12 –
Quote
@jojo

It only needs to be transparent for the person using it, which varies from person to person. Transparency is not the same for everyone.

The only gauranteed transparency is lossless.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265444"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

this is true, but people who are fine with ogg q4 might be fine with LAME -V3 or -V4 too. However, the original question was what setting equals LAME --preset standard
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'
 

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #13 –
Actually, The original question  was what is the default setting for Vorbis.  The recommended setting for Vorbis is in the FAQ, as is the recommended setting for LAME.

You want to know what Vorbis setting is = to LAME --preset standard. There is no definitive answer for this. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. You have to judge for yourself.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #14 –
Quote
Doesn't OGG have troubles with the stereo imaging at high bit-rates? At least a magazine that used Q6 commented on this in their test a while back.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265436"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I don't think anyone at HA has verified this behaviour, though if it were true,  it sounds like a bug somewhere.  From q 6 and above, Vorbis uses lossless stereo coupling so the stereo should should be preserved exactly.

btw.  Ogg is a file container.  Vorbis is the audio codec.

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #15 –
Quote
I wonder why someone would switch from LAME --preset standard to OGG Vorbis[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265378"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I am one  . After that I tested (with ABX) both encoders (Lame 3.96.1 and Vorbis 1.1RC1) my decision was Vorbis. Vorbis in Q5 with (ITP=4) is for me transparent, and the filesizes are smaller than Lame 3.96.1 --preset standard.

On the other hand the encoding speed is faster, and for me the tagging (IMO) is more easy and secure.

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #16 –
Quote
Quote
I wonder why someone would switch from LAME --preset standard to OGG Vorbis[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265378"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I am one  . After that I tested (with ABX) both encoders (Lame 3.96.1 and Vorbis 1.1RC1) my decision was Vorbis. Vorbis in Q5 with (ITP=4) is for me transparent, and the filesizes are smaller than Lame 3.96.1 --preset standard.

On the other hand the encoding speed is faster, and for me the tagging (IMO) is more easy and secure.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265469"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

so Lame 3.96.1 -V3 wasn't transparent for you then? But obviously -V2 aka --preset standard was?
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #17 –
Quote
so Lame 3.96.1 -V3 wasn't transparent for you then? But obviously -V2 aka --preset standard was?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


  I believe that you didn't understand or maybe misread my post.

I didn't say Q4; I said Q5 with ITP=4 (impulse trigger profile setting=4) that is very different. Q5 (with ITP=4) is supposed better than only Q5; because Q5 with ITP=4 perform better with microattacks. (Default ITP with Q5 is: 2,5)

QuamtumKnot explained ITP switch very well in:
[a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15049]http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=15049[/url]

In my own ABX tests; both encoders Lame 3.96.1 (--preset standard, same as -V2) and Vorbis 1.1 (Q5 with ITP=4) were transparent for me; but with killer samples the history was very different...

I tested with badvilbel.wav and castanets.wav. Both encoders didn't be transparent for me; but, Vorbis performed better than Lame.

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #18 –
Quote
In my own ABX tests; both encoders Lame 3.96.1 (--preset standard, same as -V2) and Vorbis 1.1 (Q5 with ITP=4) were transparent for me
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265604"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I see what you are saying, however to be able to compare --preset standard with ogg Vorbis it would be interesting to know when LAME started to be not transparent for you anymore. I mean, it's the same like saying, --preset insane was transparent for me and so was Vorbis q4, but that doesn't mean that OGG q4 eqals --preset insane since a much lower LAME setting might have been transparent for this particular user as well.

That's why I asked if LAME -V3 was not transparent for you anymore
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

changing from mp3 to ogg...

Reply #19 –
Vorbis at Q4 is transparent to my ears, but mp3 below APS isn't - all this because of the too low lowpass settings. I believe that V3 or even V4 could be transparent to me if I changed these settings, but I don't want to mess with them (I might be not the only person listening to files I've created).