Mp3 APE-tag editor.

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Mp3 APE-tag editor.

2004-05-20 15:24:00

I am in the progress of changing too foobar2000 (or at least trying it out), as you probably know, foobar only supports id3v1 as default (and i have heard it's id3v2-support is buggy and could potenially harm the id3v2-tag), I also am planning to add ape-tags to get replay-gain-info.

What I'm looking for is a tagger/command line, that runs through files, adds a ape-tag to the ones without, then copies id3v2-info in fields not already in use, and preferably copies the id3v2-tracknumber to id3v1 in the same swoop, as many of my files only have id3v2 traknumber.

Any help or suggestion is helpful, even if it only partially solves the problem.

AtW

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #1 – 2004-05-20 15:29:17

foobar does this automattically. when you edit a file, foobar will convert all id3v2 to apev2 by default. ape tags arent neccecary for replaygain info by the way. id3v2 can hold this infoo too.

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #2 – 2004-05-20 15:30:26

Quote

...(and i have heard it's id3v2-support is buggy and could potenially harm the id3v2-tag)...

Where did you hear that? In my experience the id3v2 support of foobar is much better than that of most/many of the existing mp3 (tagging) software! Most people having problems with id3v2 tags in foobar don't understand that the problem was/is the software which was used to tag the files IMHO!

Regards,
The Link

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #3 – 2004-05-20 15:38:00

Quote

foobar does this automattically. when you edit a file, foobar will convert all id3v2 to apev2 by default. ape tags arent neccecary for replaygain info by the way. id3v2 can hold this infoo too.

Hmm, first of all, my foobar doesn't support id3v2 I think, as I said, I have heard that it's support is bugged, and been advised that I shold not use it.

Second, most of my files doesn't have APE-tags, and thus i have to create them first.

Third: Edit each and every song i foobar is just to inconvinient, i have a lot of songs, it need to be some automated process.

Please let me know if I'm mistaken in any of theese asumptions.

But thanks for the info

AtW

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #4 – 2004-05-20 15:43:50

download foo_id3v2.dll I bet you know where to find it, otherwise, google.
download foo_infobox.dll I bet you know where to find it, otherwise, google.

you dont have to edit each file seperately. Select all and do "Show File Info (special) Multiple Items"
then make, edit or delete a bogus tag (like VENUE, or another tag you dont care about) click okay, click update and ALL files will be in apev2 (be aware that this can take quite a while if you have lots of mp3's, removing id3v2 tags takes as long as making them)

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #5 – 2004-05-20 15:45:13

This is how I would do it:

1. Download and install foobar2000 + foo_id3v2

2. Set Playback -> Input -> Standard inputs -> MP3 Tag Writing to your personal preference.

3. Load all the songs you want to retag into fb2k.

4. Select them all, enter the context menu and execute Database -> Rewrite File tags from database. This will probably take some time, but you'll end up with perfectly retagged files.

In my personal experience foo_id3v2 is one of the most solid id3v2 implementations around and I'd really like to know who told you that it is buggy or unreliable.

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #6 – 2004-05-20 15:46:18

heh, that would be the official way i suppose

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #7 – 2004-05-20 16:01:24

Ok, thanks a lot guys, a final question:

If i select a file and choose propertes, i see the metadata, but which metadata is this? what if id3v1, v2 and ape-tags have different info? And how do i know which type of tags are present? I assume if I want to add additional fields as lameversion and qualitysetting, I just select the songs and add:

QUALITY = APX
LAMEV = 3.90.2
RIPPER = ExactAudioCopy v0.9b4 (Secure Mode)

Or is there some way to automaticly detect thees things (stored in some header by lame or something to that effect)

There was a few friends of mine who complained about the id3v2-support (people who are concerned with quality, and should know what they talk about, but they might have talked about a older version or something).

AtW

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #8 – 2004-05-20 17:13:13

Quote

There was a few friends of mine who complained about the id3v2-support (people who are concerned with quality, and should know what they talk about, but they might have talked about a older version or something).

What your friends complained about was probably that foobar has add ape2+id3v1 (strip id3v2) as default. By following dev0's advices point 1 & 2 above you can set the tagging to anything you like, e.g. id3v1+id3v2 if that's what you want. Id3v2 support on foobar (with kode54's plug) are as solid and reliable as possible with the id3v2 format. You can use it as safely as any other tageditor. Personally I would recommend default ape2+id3v1, but that's me...

You can edit tags in foobar many ways; via Properties, Masstagger, or as .zolder recommended, foo_infobox.

EDIT: Typo.

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #9 – 2004-05-20 22:50:33

Quote

This is how I would do it:

1. Download and install foobar2000 + foo_id3v2

2. Set Playback -> Input -> Standard inputs -> MP3 Tag Writing to your personal preference.

3. Load all the songs you want to retag into fb2k.

4. Select them all, enter the context menu and execute Database -> Rewrite File tags from database. This will probably take some time, but you'll end up with perfectly retagged files.

In my personal experience foo_id3v2 is one of the most solid id3v2 implementations around and I'd really like to know who told you that it is buggy or unreliable.

Ok, this doesn't work properly, because I can only choose ape+id3v1 or 1d3v2 and id3v1.

I want to keep all three tags, but if I choose ape+id3v1 it deletes the v2 tag.

AtW

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #10 – 2004-05-20 23:32:50

If you need all three tags, it might be easy to tag your files with ID3V2 using foobar2000, then use Tag from the command line to copy the ID3V2 tags to ID3V1 and APEV2. I haven't used Tag in ages (since getting foobar2000 ) but it's powerful and relatively easy to use. I'm sure someone here could do the command line pretty easily.

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #11 – 2004-05-21 00:09:39

foo_id3v2 retains all text metadata, so there is no reason to use both ID3v2 and APEv2.

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #12 – 2004-05-21 00:13:54

Do you really need both ID3v2 and APEv2 tags? I am currently using Foobar 2000 with ID3v1 and ID3v2, and i have no problems at all (i might switch to APEv2 tags later though).

In Foobar 2000 v0.7.7 the ID3v2 component didn't work correctly on some special characters. I am from Norway, and i think you are too .
In version 0.7.7 the ID3v2 component couldn't write our national characters Æ, Ø and Å. "Dødheimsgard", would become "D?dheimsgard". Could this be the problem you are referring to? Anyway, it is not a problem anymore. Download the special version of Foobar v0.8.2. Then the ID3v2 component is already installed, and it is working fine.

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #13 – 2004-05-21 02:15:50

ape2 will take æøåÆØÅ with no problem. I think id3v2 should work fine too....

Skål! (Cheers!)

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #14 – 2004-05-21 09:51:10

Quote

Do you really need both ID3v2 and APEv2 tags? I am currently using Foobar 2000 with ID3v1 and ID3v2, and i have no problems at all (i might switch to APEv2 tags later though).

In Foobar 2000 v0.7.7 the ID3v2 component didn't work correctly on some special characters. I am from Norway, and i think you are too .
In version 0.7.7 the ID3v2 component couldn't write our national characters Æ, Ø and Å. "Dødheimsgard", would become "D?dheimsgard". Could this be the problem you are referring to? Anyway, it is not a problem anymore. Download the special version of Foobar v0.8.2. Then the ID3v2 component is already installed, and it is working fine.

Yes, I really need both id3v2 and APE (don't ask me why), yes I am from norway, how did you know?

Gowerpolis: using tag could an option, but i haven't figured out how to copy from other tagtypes in that prog, and if there is an "foobar-solution" that would work, it would be easier, as I can easily see from my playlists which files that needs fixing, and just marking the and fixing them would be much easier.

AtW

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #15 – 2004-05-21 15:45:14

i would really propose you to explain why you need id3v2 AND apev2.
I cannot think of a single reason why one would need both with foobar.

Using apev2 instead of id3v2 mostly makes sense because the id3v2 patchwork-standard is problematic and slow. So, its not about "using apev2" - its about "getting rid of id3v2". Using both archieves nothing, because you still have to deal with id3v2.
However, maybe i'm missing something and there is an advantage when using both - but i really cannot think of any benefit.

- Lyx

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #16 – 2004-05-21 16:58:32

Quote

i would really propose you to explain why you need id3v2 AND apev2.
I cannot think of a single reason why one would need both with foobar.

Using apev2 instead of id3v2 mostly makes sense because the id3v2 patchwork-standard is problematic and slow. So, its not about "using apev2" - its about "getting rid of id3v2". Using both archieves nothing, because you still have to deal with id3v2.
However, maybe i'm missing something and there is an advantage when using both - but i really cannot think of any benefit.

- Lyx

id3v2 isn't hurting me, or the playback, the reasons for using both are because of other people playing the files, not because i need to personally, therefore I need all three, as having all three has no drawbacks, dealing with id3v2 is not problematic as an end-user.

Not to be rude, but you guys can't change my mind on this, so It's no use trying to convince me, so any tips on a good tool to manipulate all three are welcome.

AtW

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #17 – 2004-05-21 17:15:14

Quote

Quote
i would really propose you to explain why you need id3v2 AND apev2.
I cannot think of a single reason why one would need both with foobar.

Using apev2 instead of id3v2 mostly makes sense because the id3v2 patchwork-standard is problematic and slow. So, its not about "using apev2" - its about "getting rid of id3v2". Using both archieves nothing, because you still have to deal with id3v2.
However, maybe i'm missing something and there is an advantage when using both - but i really cannot think of any benefit.

- Lyx

id3v2 isn't hurting me, or the playback, the reasons for using both are because of other people playing the files, not because i need to personally, therefore I need all three, as having all three has no drawbacks.

uh, i don't know of any application which does support apev2 mp3-tags but not id3v2 mp3-tags. So if id3v2 is no problem for you, then i dont understand the need for apev2. But thats your choice *shrugs*

- Lyx

edit: oh, btw: if you find a way to write all three, then you cannot use those files with foobar afterwards, because whenever you do something to the tags with foobar, even if its just adding replaygain info, then foobar will remove the third tag-type completely again. So, using these "3-tag"-files with foobar has a high risk of foobar automatically removing one of them again.
Why does foobar do this? Because it doesn't make any sence to have id3v2 AND apev2.

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #18 – 2004-05-21 18:22:03

Quote

edit: oh, btw: if you find a way to write all three, then you cannot use those files with foobar afterwards, because whenever you do something to the tags with foobar, even if its just adding replaygain info, then foobar will remove the third tag-type completely again. So, using these "3-tag"-files with foobar has a high risk of foobar automatically removing one of them again.
Why does foobar do this? Because it doesn't make any sence to have id3v2 AND apev2.

Yeah I have noticed that, that really is the problem, as all the id3v2-tags usually have all the correct info, I personally thinks it pretty stupid that you can't turn this option off (at least not to my knowlengde)

AtW

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #19 – 2004-05-21 18:29:29

actually, foobar doesn't let you do it, because its stupid thing to write all three.

So, in this case, the point is: foobar doesn't let you do something stupid and automatically "corrects" it.

You, see this as a disadvantage - others may see it as a "feature".

- Lyx

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #20 – 2004-05-21 18:33:42

Why do you want Apev2 tags, if it's not about loosing ID3v2 tags?

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #21 – 2004-05-21 18:53:59

Quote

actually, foobar doesn't let you do it, because its stupid thing to write all three.

So, in this case, the point is: foobar doesn't let you do something stupid and automatically "corrects" it.

You, see this as a disadvantage - others may see it as a "feature".

- Lyx

Not to get in to a huge discussion over this, but I frankly can't see any disadvantages of having all three (exept a very small speed decrease while writing, and a few bytes added space).

My excact point is that someone sees it as an disadvantage, and other as a feuture, somthing that can be viewed both ways usually is an option the user can choose, but for some reason it is not in this case.

AtW

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #22 – 2004-05-21 18:54:52

Quote

Why do you want Apev2 tags, if it's not about loosing ID3v2 tags?

I want them, so i can add replaygain-info.

AtW

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #23 – 2004-05-21 18:59:48

like i said in my very first reply: ape tags arent neccecary for replaygain info. id3v2 can hold this info too.

Mp3 APE-tag editor.

Reply #24 – 2004-05-21 19:13:04

okay, simple summary:

everything you can do with apev2 in foobar, you can also do with id3v2. So you do NOT gain any nice features in foobar by using ape-tags.

The only reason to use ape-tags is because id3v2 charset-standards are a mess and can lead to problems with international characters when sharing the same file with different people worldwide. The other thing is that id3v2 tags are written at the beginning of the file, so large tag-additions can mean that the entire file has to be rewritten just to add some tags.
To "replace" id3v2 with a different tag-system which has the same features as id3v2 but not its downsides, one can use ape-tags to get rid of id3v2.

Thus, there are two routes:
1. ID3v2 + ID3v1 for total compatibility (exactly that what you want to have according to your posts)
2. APEv2 + ID3v1 as a replacement for id3v2's charset-mess and slow tag-writing.

But by using all three tags, you keep the disadvantages of id3v2 and gain nothing, because any player which supports ape-tags also supports id3v2, so you can as well not use ape-tags.

Basically, using all three tag-systems in mp3's just adds another tag-type and archives nothing.
- Lyx

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