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Topic: ATRAC3Plus to MP3 (Read 11415 times) previous topic - next topic
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ATRAC3Plus to MP3

 Anyone know how I can convert ATRAC3Plus files into MP3 format?

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #1 –
Aren't those files 64kbps? then you'd be much better off without transcoding. There should be an ATRAC Directshow filter for playback on your computer or you can use the software that came with Sony.
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #2 –
I read the message thread from you (atici) about Atrac3Plus and your Ph.D. in Math. I wanted to contact you directly to pick your brain on this stuff, but didn't know how through HydrogenAudio as I am a new member. I am very glad that you are online and had responded to my topic.

I am pretty green to this Sony ATRAC3/ATRAC3Plus stuff as I just bought a MZ-N10. The reason why I need to convert from ATRAC3 format is that I recorded some music from cassette tapes (bluh...) to MD. I need to know how to move the recorded tracks from the MD (media) into my computer's hard drive and then convert them to MP3PRO (yeah, I prefer MP3PRO over just MP3) so that transfered into a solid state MP3 player.

Unfortunately, my MZ-N10 does not come with any ATRAC3Plus to MP3Pro conversion software. I don't know anything about Directshow filter for playback, but I will surf the net to see find out more and where to download it.

I am confused as to what MDLP Type-S is and it is the exact same thing as ATRAC3Plus. I believe one of your email threads may have indicated that ATRAC3Plus is like RealAudio 8. Now, is that the same as MDLP Type-S? I mean, is my minidisc storing the format as ATRAC3Plus?

When I was at a Sony Store yesterday, the sales guy told me that MDLP Type-S is not the same as ATRAC3Plus and that the next generation of MiniDisc players/recorders will by able to store more songs/tracks on a minidisc when ATRAC3Plus is supported. As you can see, I am confused.

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #4 –
Quote
I read the message thread from you (atici) about Atrac3Plus and your Ph.D. in Math. I wanted to contact you directly to pick your brain on this stuff


Don't pick my brain it's happy where it is now. I don't remember mentioning this in any thread, so it's interesting how you came across that info. I am a grad student. I don't have a Ph.D. yet but hopefully I'll get one next year.

Quote
The reason why I need to convert from ATRAC3 format is that I recorded some music from cassette tapes (bluh...) to MD. I need to know how to move the recorded tracks from the MD (media) into my computer's hard drive and then convert them to MP3PRO (yeah, I prefer MP3PRO over just MP3) so that transfered into a solid state MP3 player.


There seems to be lots of loss in this procedure. A solid state MP3 player could not decode MP3Pro anyway, so you'd be better off with LAME MP3 encodes directly from your cassette.

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I am confused as to what MDLP Type-S

I think that should be regular ATRAC. Check this.

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BTW (atici), I am sold on ATRAC3 as this SONY Report indicates:


No matter how high quality the format is, the amount of information that could be retained with 64kbps is very limited. HE-AAC probably will be much better a choice for such low bitrate encoding. In the link I gave for your other thread, experienced people provide their test results to conclude ATRAC3plus is not that amazing. So don't believe that hype. Get a CD/flash player with MP3 and AAC playback instead if you still can return your Minidisc player.

Quote
When I was at a Sony Store yesterday, the sales guy told me that MDLP Type-S is not the same as ATRAC3Plus and that the next generation of MiniDisc players/recorders will by able to store more songs/tracks on a minidisc when ATRAC3Plus is supported.


I think he's right. But this will come at the expense of quality loss again. When ATRAC3plus is supported you'll be able to store more lower quality files.
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.
 

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #5 –
Quote
BTW (atici), I am sold on ATRAC3 as this SONY Report indicates:

http://www.sony.co.jp/Products/ATRAC3/tech...test_report.pdf

It looks like 64kpbs is the most optimal for quality/compression.

If you're going to take marketing at face value, then you'll be amazed at what WMA can do:

Quote
For example, the standard Windows Media Audio 9 codec is capable of delivering consumer CD quality sound at less than 64 Kbps less than 1/20 the size of the CD original.


http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsme...ic/default.aspx

Thats even better then ATRAC!

Or better yet keep in mind that marketing literature is meant to sell products at the expense of the truth, not the other way around.

Those samples were picked and encoded by Sony, using parameters selected by Sony (CBR only) on software selected by Sony (Musicmatch for MP3) against codecs selected by Sony.  No surprise that Sony looks good.

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #6 –
How much different is ATRAC3plus is from ATRAC3 ?

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #7 –
Quote
Quote
When I was at a Sony Store yesterday, the sales guy told me that MDLP Type-S is not the same as ATRAC3Plus and that the next generation of MiniDisc players/recorders will by able to store more songs/tracks on a minidisc when ATRAC3Plus is supported.


I think he's right. But this will come at the expense of quality loss again. When ATRAC3plus is supported you'll be able to store more lower quality files.

next generation minidisc is a new format of disc (holds up to 1GB) ans also allows atrac3plus recording up to 256kbps

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #8 –
Thanks atici, Mike Giacomelli, and Spase, for the insightful thoughts to my many questions.

I will need to think about my MZ-N10 ($$$). Hmmm...may be I should just get myself a better (more storage) solid state MP3 player instead. I don't want those hard drive MP3 devices because mechanical is never as shock proof as solid state.

I should also mention that my hearing is not that great due to an early childhood ear infection. As recently as last year's hearing test, my sensitivity range is between 20Hz to 12KHz (some dips in between). What I am trying to say is that I rely on other people's oppinions (such as yours) to assist me in my buying decisions. Unfortunately and as you may have noticed, I do get distracted by marketing reports that are one sided. It doesn't help that I am not technically savy (ie. Mike's comment about CBR only ???). I supposed the lack of technical expertise is my problem and that I should read up on the details via the net.

BTW (atici), RCA has several models of solid state "MP3PRO" players on the market. Hey...wait a minute...I just searched Google for Ogg Vorbis and noticed some potential portable hardware players coming down the pipeline. From what I've read, Ogg Vorbis is quite good when compared to MP3 (and MP3Pro also). More wait perhaps...

    http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/listen.html

Cheers.

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #9 –
Quote
How much different is ATRAC3plus is from ATRAC3 ?

Hi wkwai, I think Atrac3Plus is some form of RealAudio 8 format but where as Atrac3 is a Sony MDLP format (for minidisc). I believe the two are apples and oranges. Having said that, I may not know what I am talking about as I am just your average Joe consumer. In fact, I completely missed the boat on RealAudio.

From what I gathered, Atrac3 is not as great as Sony claims it to be on a listening test.

Atrac3Plus is very lossy but is more compressed than Atrac3. 

Sorry that I cannot be more helpful.

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #10 –
Quote
Hi wkwai, I think Atrac3Plus is some form of RealAudio 8 format but where as Atrac3 is a Sony MDLP format (for minidisc). I believe the two are apples and oranges. Having said that, I may not know what I am talking about as I am just your average Joe consumer. In fact, I completely missed the boat on RealAudio.


From minidisc.org

Quote
ATRAC3plus is a new audio codec from Sony that differs substantially from ATRAC3 (ATRAC4 would in fact have been a better name). Though not used in the original Minidisc, ATRAC3plus is used in Hi-MD and Sony's solid-state and CD walkman products. It uses a transform window 4 times bigger than ATRAC3 (4096 samples, or 92ms) and splits the input into 16 sub-bands prior to the FFT (MDCT) and subsequent bit allocation processing.

Sony has measured ATRAC3plus fidelity at 64kbps and found its audio quality equivalent to 128kbps MP3 (mech. trans.) Sony's current PC software produces ATRAC3plus output at user selectable bitrates of 132, 105, 66, 64 and 48 kbps. AV Watch Japan has done a bit of ATRAC3plus signal analysis and comparison with ATRAC3 (mech. trans.) ATRAC3plus is described briefly on Sony's ATRAC3 site (local copy).


Take this with a pinch of salt, regarding ATRAC3plus being equivalent to mp3 128 kbit. To my ears it is much worse. I personally find that ATRAC3 @ 132 kbit is similar in quality to LAME mp3 128 kbit, and in some cases is slightly better.

ATRAC in any form is not a product of Realaudio, but Real have adopted ATRAC at various times in their products.

Back to your first post, one way to go from ATRAC3(plus) to MP3(pro) is to use Total Recorder to record the ATRAC3 playing back in Sonicstage/OpenMG and then encode the resulting wav files to mp3/mp3pro with the software of your choice. A pain in the ass, but it works. 

Hope this helps.

Den.

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #11 –
Oh yeah, one other thing, the resulting files will sound like absolute crap.

Kinda like taking a faded photocopy of a detailed picture, and then asking a 5 year old child to draw it from memory... 

Den

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #12 –
Quote
Oh yeah, one other thing, the resulting files will sound like absolute crap.

Kinda like taking a faded photocopy of a detailed picture, and then asking a 5 year old child to draw it from memory... 

Den

Thanks Den... Quite a humorous analogy about a 5 year old child's recreation of art. 

Yeah... I have some legacy music on cassette tape (which I no longer have access to their original plastic vinyls.. old friends have gone their own separate ways)  which I would like to have in digital format. In the many yester-years of listening to analogue music, my ears/mind have managed to filter out those hideous tape hisses and so, it really doesn't bother me all that much as compared to today's much younger techno generation of audio purists.

I will check out that "Total Recorder" concept and see how bad it really is. Perhaps, I may just get my talented 7 year old to draw it out instead. 

Cheers.

ATRAC3Plus to MP3

Reply #13 –
Total Recorder itself is fine. And even ATRAC3 can have its moments of being quite good, it's just the trasncoding from one lossy format to another that introduces yet more errors/artifacts.

Good luck with it!

Den.