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Topic: I think British English is weird! (Read 9819 times) previous topic - next topic
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I think British English is weird!

Before any Brits start biting my head off, I am British

Why (in British English) are words not said the way they are spelt?  For example, the word "schedule" is pronounced shedule 

If we British people say shedule instead of schedule, why do we say school instead of shool.  Both words have the same 3 letters in the beginning "sch" !!  But for school, we say school, and for schedule we say shedule???

Anyone know why???

There are some other examples, but I can't think of them now!

[Edit ---------------------------------------------------------------- /]

Sorry for the mistake in the subtitle

I think British English is weird!

Reply #1
It's rough and it's tough, although it's even tougher if you come from Slough!!! 

If anyone's in any doubt, 'uff', 'uff', 'oh', 'uff' and 'ow'!!!

 

I think British English is weird!

Reply #2
British English does seem to have more instances of interesting pronunciations (not matching spellings) than American English does.  Of course it's a much older dialect, with far more connections to other languages, cultures and historical contexts.

Edit -- the word 'English' itself is usually pronounced like "inglish," at least in most parts of the USA... pretty strange. 

I think British English is weird!

Reply #3
Correct spelling (British, American, Canadian (the best/worst of both?)) is an elusive thing. Throw homonyms into the mix and you have chaos
Quote
I have a spelling checker
It came with my pea sea
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks eye can knot sea

Eye ran this poem threw it
Yawl be glad two no
It’s vary polished in its weigh
My checker tolled me sew

A checker is a bless sing
It freeze yew lodes of thyme
It helps me right awl stiles two reed
And aides me when aye rime

Each frays come posed up on my screen
Eye trussed to bee a joule
The checker poured ewer every word
To cheque sum spelling rule

Be fore a veiling checkers
Hour spelling mite decline
And if were lacks or have it laps
We wood be maid to wine

Butt now bee cause my spelling
Is checked with such grate flare
There are know faults with in my cite
Of none eye am a wear

Now spelling does knot phase me
It does knot bring a tier
My pay purrs awl due glad den
With rapt words fare as hear

To rite with care is quite a feet
Of which won should be proud
And wee mussed dew the best wee can
Sew floors are knot aloud

Sew ewe can sea why eye dew prays
Such soft ware for pea seas
And why eye brake in two averse
By righting wants to pleas

I think British English is weird!

Reply #4
Quote
It's rough and it's tough, although it's even tougher if you come from Slough!!! 

If anyone's in any doubt, 'uff', 'uff', 'oh', 'uff' and 'ow'!!!

Add to that "through".  (The American spelling is smart in this case...)

I think British English is weird!

Reply #5
Us New Zealanders use the queens english too, but I've never heard anyone say schedule as 'shedule'. But yes, I agree. In general the english language is just a pain.

I think British English is weird!

Reply #6
G. B. Shaw illustrated these anomolies when promoting his phonetic alphabet with the following: ghoti.  How do you pronounce it?






Yes, it is "fish."  the "GH" from trough, the "O" from onomtopoeia (the "top" part) and "TI" from partition.  Simple: fish = ghoti.

Nevertheless, it is a great, broad, wonderful, literate language.  To quote from "An Exaltation of Larks,  "What other language has the subtle shading of meaning between boyish and puerile?    B)

I'm outta here.
Nov schmoz kapop.

I think British English is weird!

Reply #7
BTW, I have a problem with the poem - is 'vary' phonetically 'vaeray' as in variety or 'vaery', similarly to various?
ruxvilti'a

I think British English is weird!

Reply #8
Explain me the Tire/Tyre Color/Colour Flavor/Flavour instances?? There seems to be many more words with subtle differences like that used in different places.
She is waiting in the air

I think British English is weird!

Reply #9
Quote
Explain me the Tire/Tyre Color/Colour Flavor/Flavour instances?? There seems to be many more words with subtle differences like that used in different places.

Also, "z" is used less often in British English (e.g. realise vs. realize, synthesiser vs. synthesizer).

Isn't the letter "z" also referred to as 'zed' in England (or is that only Canada?).  In the USA it's "zee."

I think British English is weird!

Reply #10
also words like: archaeology, gynaecology, haemoglobin, diarrhoea, foetus, oesophagus.

but I like British english better anyway,
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you."

I think British English is weird!

Reply #11
Quote
Of course it's a much older dialect, with far more connections to other languages, cultures and historical contexts.

Actually, in many cases it's 'American' English that is the older dialect. There are many American spellings that have not changed since the 18th century. It's the British versions that have changed.

A recent example is the common use of 's' instead of 'z' in modern British writing. 50 years ago, all words that end in 'ise' were spelt with 'ize'. Nowadays, the Oxford English dictionary lists both as being correct but you rarely see people using the 'ize' form in Britain. In the US, it's still spelt as it always has been.

I think British English is weird!

Reply #12
Quote
Quote
Of course it's a much older dialect, with far more connections to other languages, cultures and historical contexts.

Actually, in many cases it's 'American' English that is the older dialect. There are many American spellings that have not changed since the 18th century. It's the British versions that have changed.

A recent example is the common use of 's' instead of 'z' in modern British writing. 50 years ago, all words that end in 'ise' were spelt with 'ize'. Nowadays, the Oxford English dictionary lists both as being correct but you rarely see people using the 'ize' form in Britain. In the US, it's still spelt as it always has been.

I'll be darned... thanks for the correction.  Interesting stuff...

I think British English is weird!

Reply #13
Try speaking english when you are from a non english speaking background... and then see what words you stuff up.

You pronouce phonetics in your native tongue, but of course it sounds all muddled up cause you are using different parts of your tongue and thus produce different sounds. My favourite example is "month" when I say it sounds like "monff" as I can't really pronouce the "th" properly cause I don't position my tongue correctly to create the correct sound.

I still cannot pronouce some words properly and I always get picked up on it  sigh... I need some re engineering.

Ah Wells 

Laters
-=MusePack... Living Audio Compression=-

Honda - The Power of Dreams

I think British English is weird!

Reply #14
Leicester
Worcestershire

I think British English is weird!

Reply #15
Surely the point is that English (all dialects) is not a phonetic language.

IIRC in some languages, there is a direct connection between how things are said and how things are written. Once the basic spelling rules are understood, it's impossible to spell anything incorrectly if you know how to say it correctly.

This sounds like a very good idea to me, but the proposals for transforming English into this are quite clumsy:

http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/spell/

(that page contains some excellent ideas for rationalising English spelling, and some radical ideas for making it completely phonetic).


Obviously English comes from England. In the UK, it's quite strange to have the choice (in MS Word) between British English, and all the others. Many English people look at that menu, and think "no, it should be just English, and english for johnny foreigner who doesn't know how to spell properly!" ;-) .

Where other dialects have spelling which more closely represents the pronunciation, either
1. The spelling has been changed from UK English to make it more sensible, or
2. The pronunciation has changed in the UK, but the old pronunciation is still used elsewhere, making the spelling and pronunciation match better in that country than in the UK, or
3. The correct pronunciation has never been widely taught or understood in that country, so things are "said how they are spelt", and this is now the accepted pronunciation, even though it's wrong by UK English standards.

Apparently there's a lot of 3 in Asia. To English ears, it sounds like there's a lot of 3 in the US as well, but I suspect much of it is 2. Strangely, many films and TV programmes seem to avoid words which are said differently in America and England, so the full difference doesn't hit you until you travel between the two.


There has been a fascinating set of series about English on BBC Radio 4:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/routesofenglish/


FWIW I wish UK English was spelt phonetically, match to "received English" pronunciation. When I think of all the hours I spent learning how to spell - it never occurred to me that it was the spelling system itself that was stupid!

However, if we changed, that would leave the rest of the world very confused - how could we communicate on this message board?

Cheers,
David.

I think British English is weird!

Reply #16
This poem has some good examples... If you can get through it

I think British English is weird!

Reply #17
I did a quick google search and the information I found about the differences in British/American English is quiet amazing !

Google

I think British English is weird!

Reply #18
Quote
  For example, the word "schedule" is pronounced shedule 

If we British people say shedule instead of schedule, why do we say school instead of shool.  Anyone know why???

There are some other examples, but I can't think of them now!

Differences can sometimes be explained by etymology.
A very interesting online source for me is this one. For example:

Quote
school - "place of instruction," O.E. scol, from L. schola, from Gk. skhole "school, lecture, discussion, leisure," originally "a holding back, a keeping clear," from skhein "to get" + -ole by analogy with bole "a throw," stole "outfit," etc. The original notion is "leisure," which passed to "otiose discussion," then "place for such." Replaced O.E. larhus "lore house." Sense of "people united by a general similarity of principles and methods" is from 1612. The verb is from 1573.

schedule - 1397, sedule, cedule, from O.Fr. cedule, from L.L. schedula "strip of paper," dim. of L. schida "one of the strips forming a papyrus sheet," from Gk. skhida. The notion is of slips of paper attached to a document as an appendix (a sense maintained in U.S. tax forms). The specific meaning "printed timetable" is first recorded 1863 in railway use (the verb in this sense is from 1862). Modern spelling is 15c., in imitation of L.; the modern British pronunciation ("shed-yul") is from Fr. influence, while the U.S. pronunciation ("sked-yul") is from
the practice of Webster.

I think British English is weird!

Reply #19
English won't be phonetic after adopting thousands of words from other languages.
I pronounced 'rendezvous' and 'lingerie' phonetically before and got laughed at by a classmate. It's the French's fault .

I think British English is weird!

Reply #20
No wonder so many internet chatters strongly rebel against the chaos in spelling and grammar.
Gur svggrfg funyy fheivir lrg gur hasvg znl yvir. Jr zhfg ercrng.

I think British English is weird!

Reply #21
As long as we're on the general topic of language... I live in an area of the USA (Pacific Northwest) with a lot of American Indian names for cities, counties, rivers, and other things.  Anyone want to take a stab at these?

* Puyallup
* Spokane
* Snoqualmie
* Sequim
* Rainier
* Issaquah
* Tukwila
* Sammamish
* Enumclaw
* Mukilteo

Edit -- no Googling allowed... 

I think British English is weird!

Reply #22
I'll go for "spoke" "Anne", but no further!

I think British English is weird!

Reply #23
Quote
Actually, in many cases it's 'American' English that is the older dialect. There are many American spellings that have not changed since the 18th century. It's the British versions that have changed.

on the other hand, both dialects have been revised.  Time for a lexocographic history lesson kiddies. This'll be fun, complete with smilies! 

Most of our crazy English spellings come courtesy of Dr Samuel Johnson. He  famously published and promoted his 40k dictionary ~1750AD "to fix the language". That's fix as in set - he wanted eveyone to spell things the same, rather than as they liked. This has eventually mutated into the Oxford and Cambridge Dictionaries as the premier college towns struggle for intellectual superiority... 

In the case of America, it was foaming intellectual/nationalist/revelutionary Noah Webster who "corrected" the english language into an American one, using the same method. Websters Dictionary, which later became the Merriam-Webster, Websters International, and American Heritage dictionaries. 

Of course pronunciation drift continues at an only mildly abated pace, but that's okay; with global media proliferating, it's only a matter of time before we all speak homogenese.

EDIT: missed two words out at the start of a line, punctuation
and a link if you don't believe me. Merriam-Webster Dictionaries: Our Founder!
Hip-hop looks like it's having more fun than you are - Chuck D

I think British English is weird!

Reply #24
gristus, thanks for that poem - I've been looking for it since I lost my copy of it about 30 years ago. And I'm sure it's older than 1974. I got it from a Dutchman who said he had been exposed to it in school in the late fifties or early sixties. In fact I lost contact with him in 1973.

[Edit]
If you read that poem to the end you'll come to The first version of the poem which nicely backs up what I said.
[/Edit]

I was also going to add "hiccough" to the "ough" words, but the poem beat me to it!

Cheers,
Alan
Cheers,
Alan