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Topic: Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav (Read 5549 times) previous topic - next topic
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Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Hi folks.
Thanks for all help last time. Now I have all my CD's converted to FLAC (and mp3) I am listening to it through my squeezebox. AMAZING!! 

Now it's time to convert my old vinyl collection to PC-format  Wav (and to FLAC and mp3) I have a proper turntable and a proper NAD preamp. My soundcard is a kind of rotten - Creative -.

So I have two questions:
1: Which is the best stereo soundcard with line-in?
2: Which SW should I use to do the convertion? Is there any thirty-day trial I could use for some test before buying?
I haven't said anything about money, but I would prefer not too expensive SW and HW. (USD150?)

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #1 –
1. I can't answer your first question, but you might want to give your existing soundcard a shot - it might not be as bad as you think for this purpose.

2. I've used Audacity extensively to record vinyl via line-in, it's a fairly simple and straightforward audio editor.  And free. 

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #2 –
Many programs will record and all will produce the same result, with the exception that some only handle 16 bit, regardless of your soundcard. There is nothing to be gained with bit depths greater than 16 for vinyl (the disks themselves have far less dynamic range) but it you intend to do much post-recording clean-up (and possibly modification, such as EQ changes) the greater bit depth can be useful while working on the files. Of course you then need an audio editor that works with >16 bits (most do).

The M-Audio Audiophile 2496 is a good soundcard for this task and its normal price, since the introduction of the 192 model, has dropped to $99 and less.

If you intend to remove the clicks and pops and disk noise, Audition is the best all around choice. WaveRepair, for a lot less money, will let you do an excellent job if you are willing to put in the time. It is much more labor intensive, but gives you great control over the details.

With any professional or semi-pro soundcard you must be aware of the possibility of a signal level mismatch to the soundcard. Output level from cartridges and phono preamps is not standard. I've recorded more than 500 LPs with an Audiophile 2496. I get a good recording level and have never clipped. However, using the same soundcard, some people will find most LPs producing clipping on many peaks and other people get too low a signal level to satisfy them. A line level preamp, or a mixer, to control the input level, may be necessary between the phono preamp and soundcard.

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #3 –
Quote from: The Two Channel Amplifier on
1: Which is the best stereo soundcard with line-in?
2: Which SW should I use to do the convertion? Is there any thirty-day trial I could use for some test before buying?
I haven't said anything about money, but I would prefer not too expensive SW and HW. (USD150?)


AndyH-ha have a good suggestion of M-Audio sound card, I've some research years ago. But finally I bought a M-Audio Firewire Audiophile because I don't want to mess with the noise generated inside the chassis. Now I'm quite satisfy the result.

My equipment: (sorry for wierd English because translated from Chinese)
http://www1.worldlingo.com/wl/services/SG5...Fequipment.html
Hong Kong - International Joke Center (after 1997-06-30)

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #4 –
WaveRepair +1

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #5 –
While there is nothing wrong with having the soundcard external to the computer, there is no noise problem to overcome when using a decent PCI soundcard. For my Audiophile 2496 setup:

soundcard noise floor  -99dBfs (RMS average)
TT into phono preamp into soundcard noise floor  -80dBfs
most common between tracks LP noise level  around -55dBfs

It is unlikely the firewire version beats that -99dB by very much unless the converters are a generation or two newer. Moving them outside the computer case -- unless there is something wrong with the computer, as is the case with some laptops -- does little to change the performance.

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #6 –
Thanks a lot guys! Grateful and happy for all good ideas coming from this forum members!!

I'll go for my Creative SB Audigy Audio Card and I have downloaded sw from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ .

Hopefully this gives an OK result.

I'll be back

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #7 –
Quote from: AndyH-ha on
If you intend to remove the clicks and pops and disk noise, Audition is the best all around choice.


Well ... I prefer to use external Plug-Ins and I have had great success with the "Waves Restoration Bundle" which has dedicated plugins for click, crackle, hum and noise removal with residual preview functionality (so you'll know if there is actual music in what you are removing which might indicate your settings need adjustment) ... its downside is that you'll have to use a Wave Editor that is capable of either running VST or DirectX.

As for soundcards ... the M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496 (as good as it is) has a very sensitive analog input that might be driven into clipping if your NAD preamp generates signal voltages above 2V ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #8 –
There are quite a few plug--ins to enhance an editors native functions. I use two of them on LP cleanup. You need an audio editor, however, and Audition is the best all around choice. Its native declicking and noise removal transforms are also quite a bit better than the majority of what's available, but it is always helpful to have additional tools.

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #9 –
Hello. I'm back...

I'v tried to play / record from vinyl now, but I am not satisfied. What am I doing wrong? I have connected my turntable to my preamp (sounds grate on my hifi equipment). But when I connect it to analoge in (line or mic) on my Creative SB card I receive a lot of noice in addition to (too) low sound from my preamp. Even though I have a "normal output" and a "high Output" from my preanmp - and I've tried both. Any idea of what to do?
Thanks for replies and good ideas.

T2capa

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #10 –
Hi,
looks like you  might want to buy a more decent sound card....
Personally, I use a Terratec EWX2496 and am quite happy with it.
Some of the RME audio cards are also considered to be very good,
although they are not a bargain..:-)
For software, my recommendation would be Sound Laundry:

http://www.algorithmix.com/home/index_products.htm

It provides the possiblity to listen to the effects you apply
"online" (realtime), and it provides a good descratcher/denoiser
as well.

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #11 –
You definitely do not want to send your signal through the SB microphone preamp. It WILL be noisy and distorted; it is not the right kind of electronics to send a phono out through.

I don't know about that particular SB card, but the line-in is relatively noisy on some of the earlier versions.

There are recording controls on the recording section of the Windows mixer. It is possible to attenuate the signal before it gets to your recording program. Are the correction options checked on the mixer? Is the level slider up for the input you are using? Just what is the recording level in the program?

Have you tried recording from any other source, such as a CD player? Those usually have a fairly high output although it can very from one to another. Try recording from the phono preamp and a CD player. Note the relative signal strengths in the recording program. Do you get the same relationship between those sources when you plug them into a line-in on your HiFi system? If not, something is wrong with the computer set-up.

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #12 –
Mostly the problem is solved 

What I did:
1:updated the SB driver for my soundcard (Creative SB Audigy 2ZS (WDM).
2: Replaced my bad audiocable between preamp and line-in from a poor cable to a high quality phono audiocable with only a adapter between the audiocable and the line in. (3.5mm jack).
3: I've got sound! I regulated volume out on my preamp so it did never become to loud for the input.
The sound was great! I used Audacity and configured (hopefully as good as possible - have some questions there) and I really got nice Wav-files.

I did Click removal (default settings)
I did Noise removal ( just played a bit of the sound coming from the LP before the music started to learn how noise sounds like) (Default settings) Converted the files to FLAC and played them thru my Squeeze. .
FLASHBACK from the 70's music.. A great time.

What is the best settings of Audiacity?  I did it this way:
Setting Audio preferences like "44100Hz"
Sample format "24bit"
Real time rate converter to "High quality Sinc Interpolation"
High Quality rate converter to "High quality Sinc Interpolation"
Real time dither "None"
High quality dither "Triangle"
Uncompressed Export Format "Wav (Microsoft 16bit PCM)
Interface Minimum DB mode display range -145 (PCM range of 24bit samples)

Any other settings I should be aware of?


What about ID Tags? What do I use to edit ID Tags so that my mp3 players and my Squeezebox can read and display the information?

Grateful for good advices (again)
Sorry I am so slow in this but with good help from experienceds people I'll manage - if you stay out with all my questions...

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #13 –
I suspect your Audigy is just like every other card from that manufacturer -- it resamples everything to 48kHz -- which most likely means it samples the input at 48kHz, then hardware converts that to whatever the recording program expects. You will get best quality by not allowing the card to resample. Tell the program to record at 48kHz. Sometime post recording, you can resample to 44.1kHz with better quality software.

Since I don't use Audacity, I can't be sure about some of those settings.

You don't want any "real time" sample rate conversion going on. I suggest that any resampling be a stand-alone operation. I don't know if Audacity does a very good job or not, but there are a couple of freeware sample rate converters that have been talked up quite a bit in this forum.

If you are recording to 24 bit to assist the clean-up transforms, you might as well go for the best and use 32 bit float.

Unless you are convinced that Audacity does great resampling, do not export as 16 bit.  Leave all the resampling for the better program. If so, you won't need any kind of dither in Audacity.

The display range is your preference. I often limit the VU meters to 30dB. I mostly have the Spectral display set to 120dB but more is occasionally useful.

There are no tags with WAV format. I have no idea what you can do when converting to FLAC.

If you are making a noise removal profile, between tracks is generally much better for the noise sample. The lead-in and lead-out areas are very frequently much noisier than anywhere else, so not very representative.
 

Need advice for PC-SW to record vinyl to wav

Reply #14 –
I have an M-Audio 2496 card, have used it to record 100+ LPs to the PC. Have had very good results. I have not detected any noise from inside the PC appearing in the recordings.

I use Wave Repair to do the recording, clean up and cue sheets. Has worked well for me.

The quality of the turntable and the setup are important to getting good results. The cartridge needs to be a good one and be properly installed and aligned. The turntable interconnects to the amp need to be in good condition and well-grounded, or you may get some ground hum.  You may get ground hum anyway between the amp and the PC, you may need a ground isolator (I have one).

No doubt you already know that you need clean LPs to get good results.  I wash mine the day before I plan to record to the PC, very gently with dish soap and cool water, then a water/alcohol rinse, and careful drying. Dry overnight before recording.

S.