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Topic: NAS or server (Read 16244 times) previous topic - next topic
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NAS or server

Reply #25 –
Quote from: ramicio on
Any good RAID controller will let you migrate between array types, add drives, etc.  Software RAID is pointless, because RAID is also meant to boost performance, where software RAID requires a lot of resources.

You obviously have never looked at any benchmarks of a good softraid implementation or Intel RAID.  They match or beat high end cards for only a tiny bit of CPU, well under 5% in most cases.  Linux and Intel also allow array migration.  Dedicated RAID cards made sense when CPUs were slow or when you need every last bit of CPU for something else.  In a NAS this is not the case. 

The CPU on 99% of those "insane RAID controller" cards?  Easily beaten by a P3.  To a modern PC RAID calculations are nothing, an afterthought.  Almost all of those NASes with slow ARMs are using softraid, usually Linux MD or some variant.


Quote
Why would I not get more speed from a bonded NIC?  The point of link aggregation is to boost speed OR for redundancy.  Get 2 identical 2-port 1 Gbps NICs (Intel) and directly connect them with 2 cables, you will get 2 Gbps.


No, you will not get 2 Gbps between two hosts.  You will get 2G Gbps total, but divided into two 1 Gbps chunks.  It will load balance a bit, but any single client cannot get more than 1 Gbps.  It's simply the way Ethernet works, it is still communicating with two MACs and a single client MAC cannot talk to both.

You also need a switch that supports this, not many consumer level switches do.

NAS or server

Reply #26 –
Quote from: ramicio on
The file still exists on the disk after being deleted.  It can be undeleted.

Do you have a specific easily available and hopefully free (as in beer) tool to recommend or are you just theorizing?

NAS or server

Reply #27 –
Quote from: ramicio on
The file still exists on the disk after being deleted.  It can be undeleted.


Only if you notice right away, the file hasn't been overwritten, the file was not too fragmented, etc.  On SSDs the file data might get TRIMed or GC erased.  Undeletion is not in any way a suitable way to avoid accidents.

NAS or server

Reply #28 –
Hi, thanks all for info

i have been reading about home built raid servers for a year. My conclusion is that home built servers + some hefty NIC and raid adapters (more than 6 hdd) is very time demanding. I ask for NAS because i have not red som much about NAS but i'm qite shure it gives less hassle. And, i dont know linux, and i have desided not to learn it.(I am quite goodwith PC/Win, has worked with this at a professional level in 5 year, and it is my hobby)

So to "bump" Is there anybody of you who know to give me an advice regarding buying a home NAS at minimum 3 gig (6 drives) + gig ethernet for streaming music from flac, jpg's, avi, mkv, etc...?

Happy for all answers as usual

PS I got my apple tv2 today, I will jailbreak it and instal xbmc. This apple tv i will use in my kitchen and only for music. I connect it with spdif to active speakers from avi hifi http://avihifi.com/neutron.html

Kitchen not finished built yet, but all cables in installed :-)

Lysaar

NAS or server

Reply #29 –
On an SSD the file is more likely to be able to be recovered.  Just this week THG had an article about how hard it actually is to totally erase an SSD.

The Intel RAID only allows you to do so much.  You can't migrate from any level to any level.  It's very restricted.  It's also very CPU-intensive.  If you lose a drive in a RAID5 array and rebuild with a new drive, CPU usage is going to be off the charts.  The RAID cards do what they do more efficiently.  Their software/firmware (whatever) is more specifically written for that CPU.  Ever wonder why we still can't smoothly emulate something as simple as an N64 game yet, and that console's hardware specs are puny compared to a modern PC, or even a PC of that era?  Machine code.

I WILL get 2 Gbps.  I do NOT need to run a switch.  I will be connecting the file server to my PC, with 2 identical NICs, of the Intel variety, directly.  They support what I want to do.

Just search for a file undeleter, there are plenty.  I don't know about one of these non-PC NAS, but a computer built as a NAS will be able to undelete a file.  If you don't know you deleted a file to where you don't notice it quickly enough to not overwrite those blocks, then chances are you aren't going to notice a backup giving you the file back.  And if you have no idea that you deleted the file and back up that image, the file will still be gone from the backup!

NAS or server

Reply #30 –
If you're looking for server class hardware....

I got an RioWorks 2U rack server with Arima HDAMA motherboard, 2 x AMD Opteron 250; 2GB ECC DDR & PSU for about £50 last year on eBay. This motherboard has 2 x gigabit LAN sockets and 2 x PCI-X + 3 x PCI-64 slots.

It's been running in my server perfectly since then, although I changed out the processors for a pair of Opteron 280s and upped the RAM to 8GB.

Never had a problem with the 3Ware 9550SX-12 RAID card either.

This is all tied together using the ServerElements NASLite-M2 x64 home server operating system.

NAS or server

Reply #31 –
1. I won't be buying everything at once.  Component by component.

2. I object to AMD hardware.

3. I favor PCIe, PCI-X is outdated.

NAS or server

Reply #32 –
Quote from: ssjkakaroto on
Just out of curiosity, what NIC do you have and how fast are your transfers?
I'm currently using this NIC.

I'm using whatever is in my all-in-one mini Atom board.  I got ~40 MB/s from internal drives and around 30 from USB ones (all I have now).  No idea if I can go any faster on this old wiring.  I never tested with a segment of CAT-6 when I had drives mounted via SATA.  Only real point I had was I show no (significant) CPU usage on network traffic with a quite weak CPU.

Quote from: ramicio on
I WILL get 2 Gbps.  I do NOT need to run a switch.  I will be connecting the file server to my PC, with 2 identical NICs, of the Intel variety, directly.  They support what I want to do.

That's not a network.  Anyone can get 3 or 6 Gbps with a direct fricking connection.

Quote from: Lysaar on
i have been reading about home built raid servers for a year. My conclusion is that home built servers + some hefty NIC and raid adapters

As MOST of us agree, no RAID controller is needed, and as YOU already said, no fancy NIC is needed.

Quote from: Lysaar on
And, i dont know linux, and i have desided not to learn it.(I am quite goodwith PC/Win, has worked with this at a professional level in 5 year, and it is my hobby)

Freenas, install and forget.

Quote from: Lysaar on
So to "bump" Is there anybody of you who know to give me an advice regarding buying a home NAS at minimum 3 gig (6 drives) + gig ethernet for streaming music from flac, jpg's, avi, mkv, etc...?

Multiple solutions for boxed solutions have been presented already.
Creature of habit.

NAS or server

Reply #33 –
Just because it's connected right to my computer with the fast connection doesn't mean I can't also connect it to a switch for regular network access for other people at the same time.  Only one computer isn't a network.  2 or more is a network.

NAS or server

Reply #34 –
I have a DiskStation NAS, and after configuring it, have never had a lick of trouble with it.
Small, quiet, and feeds everything in the house without hiccup.
They have many different configurations, but after all my shopping, reviewing, etc, this is what I bought.

http://www.synology.com/us/index.php

NAS or server

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Lysaar on
Hi

im planning to buy a NAS for my media files.

Anybody who know Netgear ReadyNAS Ultra 6 Plus, Diskless?
http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-ReadyNAS-Dis...U/dp/B004AM61YI

Or maybe some of you can give me a advice for what is a good solution for storing like 3 gigabyte?

Happy for all answers!

I have a Netgear ReadyNAS Pioneer Pro and, after some firmware glitches they finally fixed, it's been bulletproof. I run RAID 6 so up to 2 drives can fail with no data loss (read up on Google's report on hard drive reliability in their server farms if you want to know why losing 2 drives within the same week in a RAID array is *far* more likely than most would ever guess).

I get around 80 - 90 MByte/sec (720 Mbit/sec) over gigabit ethernet with jumbo packets for sustained large file transfers from a fast Windows 7 PC. I think that's about as fast as gigabit ethernet can run. My previous NAS poked along at about 15 MByte/sec.

The downside of the Pioneer is it's Celeron based and uses a bit more power than some of the newer Atom based NAS's do. But it's still vastly more energy efficient than most (non-Atom) PC-based NAS solutions. Every watt of 24/7 consumption is $1 per year. So a 150 watt PC will cost you $100/year more than a 50 watt NAS. I'm running 6 Samsung "green" (5400 RPM) 1.5 TB drives which have been great so far. I haven't installed any 3rd party apps or plug ins on it or tried to root it.

The Netgear software already makes a great media server. And it has the performance to even stream native format (not transcoded) ripped 30+ GB blu-ray movies without any problems. So I'm really happy with it. It hasn't even been re-booted in at least 6 months.

NAS or server

Reply #36 –
Many of you here don't like Wikipedia, but here's a pretty sensible "executive summary" from it about RAID and backups:

[blockquote]
Quote
A RAID system used as a main system disk is not intended as a replacement for backing up data. In parity configurations it will provide a backup-like feature to protect from catastrophic data loss caused by physical damage or errors on a single drive. Many other features of backup systems cannot be provided by RAID arrays alone. The most notable is the ability to restore an earlier version of data, which is needed to protect against software errors causing unwanted data to be written to the disk, and to recover from user error or malicious deletion. RAID can also be overwhelmed by catastrophic failure that exceeds its recovery capacity and, of course, the entire array is at risk of physical damage by fire, natural disaster, or human forces. RAID is also vulnerable to controller failure since it is not always possible to migrate a RAID to a new controller without data loss.

RAID drives can serve as excellent backup drives when employed as removable backup devices to main storage, and particularly when located offsite from the main systems. However, the use of RAID as the only storage solution does not replace backups.
[/blockquote]

Pretty clear. Versioning backup is the way to go. RAID doesn't offer that. RAID is meant to increase data availability/reliability and/or I/O performance.

It seems that there's a lot of confusion about this topic (I was misguided too for many years).. it's not helping e.g. that the leading computer magazines here in my country constantly mentions/suggests RAID as a backup system.. time to change mag. subscriptions?

NAS or server

Reply #37 –
I'll agree with the general concept RAID does NOT equal BACKUP. Even RAID-6 as I have is prone to certain failures up to and including the place burning down from a freak electrical fire or whatever. I suggest updating either an offsite (or high quality on-site theft proof and genuinely fire proof safe), and keeping the incremental data between those updates on a device like an IOSafe (which is essentially a fireproof, waterproof, USB/NAS drive for a surprisingly reasonable price). This is all especially suggested if you have significant amounts of important genuinely irreplaceable data.

I know a guy who built what he thought was a perfect home server from scratch. It had a RAID 5 array and then 2 more big drives as JBOD that woke up periodically to incrementally back up whatever was new on the RAID 5 array. He was really proud of it. Then the power supply blew up one day when he wasn't even home and fried ALL the drives. He lost EVERYTHING.

NAS or server

Reply #38 –
Quote from: NwAvGuy on
I'll agree with the general concept RAID does NOT equal BACKUP. Even RAID-6 as I have is prone to certain failures up to and including the place burning down from a freak electrical fire or whatever. I suggest updating either an offsite (or high quality on-site theft proof and genuinely fire proof safe), and keeping the incremental data between those updates on a device like an IOSafe (which is essentially a fireproof, waterproof, USB/NAS drive for a surprisingly reasonable price). This is all especially suggested if you have significant amounts of important genuinely irreplaceable data.

I know a guy who built what he thought was a perfect home server from scratch. It had a RAID 5 array and then 2 more big drives as JBOD that woke up periodically to incrementally back up whatever was new on the RAID 5 array. He was really proud of it. Then the power supply blew up one day when he wasn't even home and fried ALL the drives. He lost EVERYTHING.


Excellent example.  Other possible similar catastrophies are fire, lightening hits, and thieves.

I tell my business customers to keep their backup media at home. I tell them that if they lose their home and their business on the same day, they will probably not be worrying about either for a long time.

Reverse this idea for files whose primary copies you keep at home. Take the backup to work.

One problem with media file collections is that they are often really large. Right now the most practical way to back them up is probably USB hard drives, but you are talking a number of spindles for many applications.

Possibly this could be made more practical by using a combination of full backups and incrementals. 

If you *really* want to be secure, you need 2 off-site backups.  If you store a hard drive for a year or two, there is a pretty good chance that it will be dead when you finally get aound to checking it.

NAS or server

Reply #39 –
Quote from: Akkurat on
Many of you here don't like Wikipedia, but here's a pretty sensible "executive summary" from it about RAID and backups:

[indent]
Quote
A RAID system used as a main system disk is not intended as a replacement for backing up data.



I sell RAID to my business customers as a soft failure mechanism, not as an alternative to backup. If they have RAID and lose a drive their system can keep working until they can *schedule* the repair. There is also a performance advantage in many cases, but it is not night-and-day and media libraries for a small number of users is not performance-sensitive, anyhow.

NAS or server

Reply #40 –
Quote from: GHammer on
I have a DiskStation NAS, and after configuring it, have never had a lick of trouble with it.
Small, quiet, and feeds everything in the house without hiccup.
They have many different configurations, but after all my shopping, reviewing, etc, this is what I bought.

http://www.synology.com/us/index.php
That's a pretty neat solution too, very similar to my QNAP, which BTW can be configured to keep a recycle bin for network files too, so your RAID1/5/6 volumes kinda get a tad closer to being a real backup  , kidding aside I subscribe to greynol's point of view, in my case my NAS is also my backup cause a copy of my data is kept on my workstations (RAID1) too.

http://docs.qnap.com/nas/en/index.html?net...recycle_bin.htm

EDIT: Link to relevant page of the QNAP Turbo NAS User Manual.
WavPack 5.8.1 -b384hx6cmv / qaac64 2.84 -V 100

NAS or server

Reply #42 –
Quote from: Lysaar on
Hi

im planning to buy a NAS for my media files.

Anybody who know Netgear ReadyNAS Ultra 6 Plus, Diskless?
http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-ReadyNAS-Dis...U/dp/B004AM61YI

Or maybe some of you can give me a advice for what is a good solution for storing like 3 gigabyte?

Happy for all answers!


I have the 6x1TB drive ReadyNAS Pro Business for my home "server" and would highly recommend it.  Since it only consumes 60W, I leave it on 24x7.  It houses all of my CD rips (FLAC) for audio streaming through a five-zone Sonos system, all of my digital photos, all of my DVD rips for Windows Media Center and also has an iSCSI target (2TB) for recording live TV - also Windows Media Center (3 extenders) and individual file shares for everyone in the family.  It's fast enough with GbE interfaces to copy a 4.3GB DVD rip in roughly 20 seconds.  Using DynDNS, I can even access a public share from the Internet. 

WAF is high.  It's small, quiet and highly reliable.  I updated the firmware last week but prior to that had been running without issue since May 2010 when I last rebooted the NAS.

I'll echo the statements of others that RAID is NOT a backup.  The ReadyNAS supports local and remote backups (including snapshots) and has an integrated cloud based backup service in the ReadyNAS firmware (it's called ReadyNAS Vault) which doesn't require any PCs on the network to be on.  ReadyNAS Vault is pretty slick and while it works, it's crazy expensive.  Once you get over 5GB of backup, it becomes cost-prohibitive vs competing solutions.
 

NAS or server

Reply #43 –
Get some serious infos including thorough tests on NAS's at the below link, it'll become quickly obvious that in terms of features and performance as well QNAP > Synology > Thecus > others without even costing more.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas
WavPack 5.8.1 -b384hx6cmv / qaac64 2.84 -V 100