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Topic: Your Toughts on Audio Setup (Read 5870 times) previous topic - next topic
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Your Toughts on Audio Setup

howdy, it's been awhile
i have some doubts about my audio setup, throughout the years i've always used HA as a reference point for any audio related stuff,
other places to often lack common sense, so i hope you'll point me to right direction

Recently i decided to upgrade from x64 vista to x64 win7, only to realize that my 0202emu soundcard might have probs with win7 :/
So first question will be if anyone have emu 0202usb, and working ok on win7 os, if not, i would like to hear some alternatives for it,
because i won't let emu sloppy driver support prevents me from upgrading my os, but don't get me wrong, it is wonderful piece of hardware.
Is there something similar, to replace emu? in that price range ofc <200$ and with headphone out.

my setup atm:
foo > asus 5pqpro mbo > usb emu0202 > some oldish amp > 120W b&w speakers

and it's working quite well, emu is sitting on my desk, and have headphone out, very handy for me.

Or maybe some new amp with Coaxial S/PDIF in? my mbo supports it, but than i'll have to have something to feed my headphones i guess.
Maybe usb dac with headphone out with enough juice to feed my amp/speakers?
The more i think the more i'm confused tbh, endless possibilities nowdays, so any advise would be appreciated



regards
a frag a day keeps the doctor away

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #1 –
I would have thought your Vista drivers will work with 7

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #2 –
My 0404 works fine in 7.

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #3 –
A new amp should be an upgrade, not a sideways move; same for your DAC.  At $200 that's not going to happen.  Also, the folks over at computeraudiophile love the EMU at that price point.  review  Well, they love the 0404, which aparently has the same sound quality with more inputs.  I'm looking to get an 0202 myself. 

I know it might seem scary at first, but I recommend switching from windows to either Linux or PCBSD.  Preferably PCBSD.  With either you'll get all the music ripping / tagging / playback programs you'll need, for free.  You'll also get your EMU to work right out of the box. 

I mentioned the PCBSD because it'll have the Open Sound System by default.  Long story short, it's slightly more "audiophile" than ALSA which comes with Ubuntu.  But either one will be fine.   

I'd also recommend getting a "scratch" system to try out first.  Any old computer should work.  Install onto that so you can get a feel for it.  Then try it out in your stereo.  If you like it, then replace windows with it.  That way if you don't like either PCBSD or Ubuntu you can go with another option. 

Most likely you will NOT have to do any tinkering.  These things are pretty easy now.  You'll just have to adjust to the non - windows environment, which is only slightly different at this point.  so it shouldn't be too bad. 

I've been working on a music computer setup for years and I'm writing about it at open source audiophile.  It has lots of info on different programs to use, different computer setups, etc.  I'm also working on guides to setup those programs to our "audiophile" standards. 

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #4 –
Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
I mentioned the PCBSD because it'll have the Open Sound System by default.  Long story short, it's slightly more "audiophile" than ALSA which comes with Ubuntu.  But either one will be fine.


I'm not used to the customs here, yet, but some sentences are so telling that they should result in instant banning.

Thank good that the days of the "Open" Sound System are over! After all the audiophile idiocy I have seen over the years, I would never have thought that the crappy, old OSS would become an audiophile object of affection one day.... 

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #5 –
Quote from: googlebot on
Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
I mentioned the PCBSD because it'll have the Open Sound System by default.  Long story short, it's slightly more "audiophile" than ALSA which comes with Ubuntu.  But either one will be fine.


I'm not used to the customs here, yet, but some sentences are so telling that they should result in instant banning.

Based on which TOS?

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #6 –
Quote from: thinkum dinkum on
howdy, it's been awhile
i have some doubts about my audio setup, throughout the years i've always used HA as a reference point for any audio related stuff,
other places to often lack common sense, so i hope you'll point me to right direction

Recently i decided to upgrade from x64 vista to x64 win7, only to realize that my 0202emu soundcard might have probs with win7 :/
So first question will be if anyone have emu 0202usb, and working ok on win7 os, if not, i would like to hear some alternatives for it,
because i won't let emu sloppy driver support prevents me from upgrading my os, but don't get me wrong, it is wonderful piece of hardware.
Is there something similar, to replace emu? in that price range ofc <200$ and with headphone out.

my setup atm:
foo > asus 5pqpro mbo > usb emu0202 > some oldish amp > 120W b&w speakers

and it's working quite well, emu is sitting on my desk, and have headphone out, very handy for me.


If you're using speakers, then room acoustics and speaker performance automatically jump to the top of the list.

If you are using headphones, then they probably move up, depending on what you've got.

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #7 –
Quote from: pdq on
Based on which TOS?


I don't know... TOS 2? I just remember what a pain OSS used to be. ALSA with PulseAudio is a great, very capable combo, both practically and conceptually. I'm just surprised how awkward ideas, as OSS' supposed better "audiophile" properties (which is nonsense), smitten peoples' minds every day and don't get scrutinized. Instead people even feel appointed to spread and blog about them.

PS

Depending on how you look at it, OSS may even actually have some "audiophile" properties:
  • It's an deprecated technology, that a select group of people seems to swear by for arcane reasons.
  • The general mass has moved on to newer technologies (ALSA) and doesn't look back. Newer tech works great. Select group feels even more inclined to hold on to (now exclusive) older tech.

Reminds me somehow of tube amps...

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #8 –
Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
A new amp should be an upgrade, not a sideways move; same for your DAC.  At $200 that's not going to happen.  Also, the folks over at computeraudiophile love the EMU at that price point.  review  Well, they love the 0404, which aparently has the same sound quality with more inputs.  I'm looking to get an 0202 myself.
The 0202 and the 0404 have different DACs and ADCs.

Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
I mentioned the PCBSD because it'll have the Open Sound System by default.  Long story short, it's slightly more "audiophile" than ALSA which comes with Ubuntu.  But either one will be fine.
If that was a claim regarding sound-quality, that would be in contravention of Terms of Service 8 unless you provide proof.

Finally, recommending Mac on a site called "Open Source Audiophile" totally destroys anything resembling credibility that you might have had. Are you paid to advertise for Apple? I cannot imagine any other case where someone would advocate "free as in speech" ideologies yet recommend Mac.

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #9 –
ok, i'm not gonna quote everyone
This would be great indeed if vista drivers will work, maybe people had troubles with recording, not playback, i don't know..

galth, thnx for all those advices, but i'm a bit more IT aware than you presumed i guess, i do run linux distros at vbox, but tasks and work i'm doing runs
smoothly only on windows, and i don't think it will make any difference anyway.
I skimmed through computerAF site, and, i'm sorry but opinions that 'simply doing a Save in most software will apply a color to the file' or that
'digital playback can mess the sound even if it's bitperfect' are exactly what i was trying to avoid

Arnold, yeah i'm aware, but i'm using both somewhat equally, and since i'm moving to a new place pretty soon, best thing would be if my emu will continue to work,
and than, in new environment i might have some more doubts regarding possible upgrades 

I think i just wanted to be prepared for 'worst' driver situation, tnx for all inputs guys.


edit, just out of curiosity, what do you think of this http://www.kingrex.co.uk/t20u_amplifier.html
      it should replace amp/dac/soundcard, for this price, looks interesting, ok no headphone out, but still..
a frag a day keeps the doctor away

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #10 –
Quote from: thinkum dinkum on
edit, just out of curiosity, what do you think of this http://www.kingrex.co.uk/t20u_amplifier.html
      it should replace amp/dac/soundcard, for this price, looks interesting, ok no headphone out, but still..


I don't see anything, that would "look interesting". What specific parameter do you think is above average?

Efficiency is high enough to run it from batteries, but that's probably not what you were looking for.

Quote from: thinkum dinkum on
galth, thnx for all those advices, but i'm a bit more IT aware than you presumed i guess, i do run linux distros at vbox, but tasks and work i'm doing runs
smoothly only on windows, and i don't think it will make any difference anyway.
I skimmed through computerAF site, and, i'm sorry but opinions that 'simply doing a Save in most software will apply a color to the file' or that
'digital playback can mess the sound even if it's bitperfect' are exactly what i was trying to avoid


The reactions concerned what you have said, not what you have not said.

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #11 –
Quote from: googlebot on
Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
I mentioned the PCBSD because it'll have the Open Sound System by default.  Long story short, it's slightly more "audiophile" than ALSA which comes with Ubuntu.  But either one will be fine.


I'm not used to the customs here, yet, but some sentences are so telling that they should result in instant banning.

Thank good that the days of the "Open" Sound System are over! After all the audiophile idiocy I have seen over the years, I would never have thought that the crappy, old OSS would become an audiophile object of affection one day.... 


here is an excellent page with a detailed explanation, charts, and graphs of the current options for linux sound.  The guy has lots of experience. 

Also, I have personally used OSSv4 on both Ubuntu and Solaris.  OSS was easier to use and sounded better.  I shouldn't have said ALSA btw.  I should have also included Pulse Audio.  ALSA isn't really that bad. 

Speaking of instant banning,  one of us put up advice based on an opinion from research and personal experience.  The other posted FUD from a distant bad memory.

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #12 –
Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
here is an excellent page with a detailed explanation, charts, and graphs of the current options for linux sound.  The guy has lots of experience.


The page displays system diagrams. It does neither provide data for sound quality differences nor data for latency differences. The guy seems to deduce the latter from architectural differences alone (userspace vs. kernelspace), which is oblique, to say at least.

Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
Also, I have personally used OSSv4 on both Ubuntu and Solaris.  OSS was easier to use and sounded better.


I couldn't initially tell a specific TOS, since you only talked about "audiophile features", but that's definitely a TOS8 violation (and very likely untrue).

Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
I shouldn't have said ALSA btw.  I should have also included Pulse Audio.  ALSA isn't really that bad.


PulseAudio is a userspace sound server and is able to run on top of both OSS and ALSA, you "expert". It doesn't have anything to do with the question wether OSS is used (and better) or not.

Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
Speaking of instant banning,  one of us put up advice based on an opinion from research and personal experience.  The other posted FUD from a distant bad memory.


Research isn't unquestioned acceptance of random blog posts. Your "experience" is meaningless as long as you cannot provide any conclusive data. ALSA and PulseAudio are both able to deliver unmodified samples from input to output. So if you call something to have better sound, it is just very likely that you are just imagining. It is hard to be better than perfect.

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #13 –
Quote
PulseAudio is a userspace sound server and is able to run on top of both OSS and ALSA, you "expert". It doesn't have anything to do with the question wether OSS is used (and better) or not.


I never said anything contrary to this.  I was merely trying to clarify that I actually had more problems with pulse than alsa.  read on if you really need me to be as detailed as possible.  I'll try to be in every little way, but I'm sure you'll find more things to yell about. 

Quote
Research isn't unquestioned acceptance of random blog posts. Your "experience" is meaningless as long as you cannot provide any conclusive data. ALSA and PulseAudio are both able to deliver unmodified samples from input to output. So if you call something to have better sound, it is just very likely that you are just imagining. It is hard to be better than perfect.


WOW, I wish I never mentioned that I liked OSS better.  There.  you win.  It's so hard to be clear enough to satisfy TROLLS.  Thanks for making my first foray into posting on forums a good one :-)  Good job ignoring "slightly" and "either should be just fine."  The "either should be just fine statement" should be taken at face value, because as you so smartly pointed out, each of them can deliver "unmodified samples from input to output.  The "slightly" comment was meant to shorten the long story that a distro with OSSv4, or switching to OSSv4, often doesn't have to involve a separate sound server, while ALSA can sometimes involve a sound server such as Pulse.  and yes ALSA doesn't have to have a sound server.  there!  even though I just said "can sometimes" I'll make sure to try please you!  The "slightly" comment was also throwing in a lot of anecdotes about different people's woes they've had with Pulse and / or ALSA.  Don't forget to point out that neither I nor they are providing specific examples!... yeah, that's why I just said "slightly" and "more audiophile" so that I could just keep it simple while providing a suggestion for someone who may or may not be experienced with unix situations. 

... a suggestion that was meant to help get his DAC working without spending any cash or dealing with Windows.  personal note of bias:  I like unix better than windows and I'm not going to explain why!  everyone, use whatever you like.  it's a free world!

What I meant to say is that when I replaced ALSA and Pulseaudio with OSS on my system I liked it better.  I liked OSS's features, specifically per - application volume control.  and yes, good boy, you get a treat:  each of them can deliver unmodified samples from input to output.  I couldn't really hear a difference either on any application except one.  in fact I don't remember what that ONE was.  I switched back to ALSA specifically BECAUSE there wasn't really a difference, and I needed an HDMI audio driver to get sound output.  Yeah, the computer WASN'T even my stereo computer.  It was my HTPC.  ALSA is still on it in fact. 

whew! there we go!  I really should have dumped all of that onto the original poster instead of my shortened version because then I wouldn't have made such an atrocious error as saying that OSS sounded better. 

don't forget to jump all over the people who bashed OSS as being old and deprecated too!  oh wait, you did.  you did forget to bash those guys for spreading their opinion even though they're actually wrong about it being old and / or deprecated. 

and for the record, I never claimed to be an expert.  I am not an expert.  I'm a regular person who'd like to participate in a forum where chilled out people can share their experiences without jumping all over each other.  GET A LIFE!

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #14 –
Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
personal note of bias:  I like unix better than windows and I'm not going to explain why!  everyone, use whatever you like.  it's a free world!

I don't think the OP appreciates the ranting on about an application for operating system that he clearly does not intend to use.

@ooglebot:
galtthedestroyer has not broken any rules in the TOS except for possibly #5 for which you are also a responsible party.

Feel free to bash each other via PM if you like.  Continuation of it in this discussion will not be tolerated.

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #15 –
heh yeah, well i maybe exaggerated my question, and invited speculations
it would be better if i just asked 'would my soundcard work on win7', sorry

and i got my answer, tnx
a frag a day keeps the doctor away

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #16 –
Quote from: greynol on
@ooglebot:
galtthedestroyer has not broken any rules in the TOS except for possibly #5 for which you are also a responsible party.


Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
Also, I have personally used OSSv4 on both Ubuntu and Solaris.  OSS was easier to use and sounded better.


Both statements are contradictory. This leaves me kind of lost.

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #17 –
Quote from: googlebot on
Quote from: galtthedestroyer on
Also, I have personally used OSSv4 on both Ubuntu and Solaris.  OSS was easier to use and sounded better.

I was going over the initial post that raised the off-topic controversy and missed this one.  You are correct in pointing that violation out.  Thank you.
 

Your Toughts on Audio Setup

Reply #18 –
@thinkum dinkum: The E-MU 0202 USB works very well with Windows 7 64. You´ll have the same restrictions as in Windows Vista I guess. Recording and playback is possible in every quality you may desire. Windows Sound has to be configured to the samplerate you define in the little E-MU USB audio application - but I think that this is the same in Vista. If you´re lucky with your E-MU, keep it. You won´t run into problems with Windows 7 64.
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