Problem with DualDisc (tech.)

2007-07-08 22:47:38

Hi!

I hope this is the right forum to post my little problem, becuase it is a more techical one.

The following happened when I wanted to enjoy a DualDisc (you know, these discs one side DVD, the other CD) on my PC. I put it in my drive (Samsung SH-182D) to listen to the DVD side. The disc got up to speed and shortly after I started my playback software, a terrible noise came from the drive. I first thought that the whole disc broke in the drive and pushed the eject button. To my surprise the disc was still in one piece, but for now I turned my attention to the drive to see if it got broken. Fortunately it was not (reading CDs/DVDs/ripping, everything worked fine).
Later I took a closer look at the disc: it had some scratches/cracks near the middle hole. Not tangential cracks, as you might expect, these were going around the hole in the middle.
Well, after this I tought that this disc was broken in a way before, so I've tried another DualDisc on that drive. And exactly the same happened!

So I think that the drive has some severe problems with DualDiscs (especially because my other drive - some older Toshiba model - doesn't have any problems with these kind of discs). So now I have 2 questions:

1. Does any body has this very drive or a similar Samsung model and also has problems with DialDiscs?
2. What happened? And how this can be prevented?

For the second question I can only guess: DualDisc are thicker than CDs or DVDs. When a disc is inserted in a drive, some shaft comes from below (rotating the disc). From above there is kind of holder so that the disc can't get loose in the drive while rotating at fast speeds. And because DualDiscs are thicker, this holder can't do its job properly...

I already searched the internet and some forums, but found absolutely nothing.
So, anyone here knowing anything about that topic?

Problem with DualDisc (tech.)

Reply #1 – 2007-07-08 23:02:13

I don't have a samsung drive, but i have had problems with dualdiscs (i have a dell laptop with TSSTCorp drive). The problem in my case, was that the drive couldn't properly hold on to the disc when insterted from the audio cd side (but weirdly, it would hold the disc perfectly when inserted from the dvd side). I tried ripping the CD anyway, but the drive made very weird noises, and EAC told me to wait a very very long time because it was re-reading EVERY part of the disc.

Problem with DualDisc (tech.)

Reply #2 – 2007-07-08 23:46:17

I have the same problem with my Hypnotize DualDisc by System of a Down. The problem is that the CD side doesn't conform to Redbook standard. This causes a lot of reading problems for programs like EAC. There really isn't a solution except to keep trying different methods and programs to rip the DualDisc.

Problem with DualDisc (tech.)

Reply #3 – 2007-07-09 02:03:27

I had no problems with Emerson, Lake & Palmer's Birth of a Band: Isle of Wight Festival. On a Sony DVD burner. But you can never be sure with dual disc.

Problem with DualDisc (tech.)

Reply #4 – 2007-07-09 02:07:26

My desktop's older NEC drive (from 2002) refuses to read DualDiscs anymore.  It used to read the audio sides at incredibly slow speeds but it no longer reads them (it is a CD-RW drive, not a DVD burner).  My notebook's newer NEC drive will read both the audio and DVD side of DualDiscs just fine though.  The only real solution is to either find hardware that supports DualDisc or just don't purchase the format.  I try not to purchase the format when I can help it.  For example, Judas Priest's "Angel Of Retribution" came out in both DualDisc and standard CD + separate DVD.  Both versions had exactly the same content except that one package had two discs and the other just had the one DualDisc.  There are other times when you really can't help like Nine Inch Nails - With Teeth, System Of A Down - Hypnotize, Mudvayne - Lost And Found, etc.  Many artists release their limited edition packages just through DualDiscs.

DualDisc is a Sony format and it had great potential behind it but, since the discs are thicker and they don't conform to standards, you are pretty much limited as to where you can play the discs.  Forget about car CD decks, almost all Apple computer models, and any other type of slot loading drive.  I think Universal Studios made their similar format for a few releases but they quickly pulled it as people were having problems (the same problems as with DualDisc).

Problem with DualDisc (tech.)

Reply #5 – 2007-07-09 03:20:53

I had no problems with dual disc in my car CD/MP3 player as well. Which is an Aiwa (made by Sony.)

Problem with DualDisc (tech.)

Reply #6 – 2007-07-09 10:05:16

Well, there are problems with DualDiscs, especially with reading the CD side. Simply said that's becuase they glue together a DVD layer and a CD layer. But the resulting discs are too thick so they make the CD layer thinner than on normal CDs. This results in a laser ion a drive can't focus correctly on the CD side. So for many drives it's extremely hard to read such discs.

These problems are known, but I ask myself how it can happen that a DualDisc flips off of the rotating shaft in the drive while reading the DVD side. I mean, do I have a faulty drive or is this very likely to happen (e.g. when the disc has only the slightest imbalance)?