What is the exact difference between these two containers?
Can anyone tell me the advantage of using either of these!
I usually rip all my DVD's 2 Ogm Format .......
Ogg audio cuz of its compression with subtitles ... SRT n sumtims Chapters
For me its convenient!!!
Never used Matroska...
Matroska is clearly more superior than OGM.
Multiple audio and subtitles.
Supports many audio formats, including Vorbis (or OGG as you may call it).
Chapter support too.
And IIRC, OGM is a hack, not a standardized container format.
It's not even endorsed by Xiph.org.
But, as always, CMIIW.
And IIRC, OGM is a hack, not a standardized container format.
It's not even endorsed by Xiph.org.
Now that isn't really true, is it (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/)?
A quick visual overview substitutes many half-witted answers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats)
Make your choice.
IMHO, MKV and MP4 are the way to go.
MP4 will be the standard with consumer products like stand-alone-players etc and be widely supported by a lot of hardware sooner or later. MKV is laid out to support more features and it's in the public domain so theoretically there are no hard odds against it to be supported outside the PC world, but the story of Ogg Vorbis shows us that generally the formats of the big companies that make it into the consumer hardware (like MP4).
So either way, if you want to be on the safe side and plan on mastering videos for standalone players then neither ogm nor mkv are the best choice. If you're thinking about PC playback only then MKV and MP4 are both fine.
Oh, I'm not sure, but I think only MKV supports VfW. So if you're a VirtualDub user, think about dumping that editor (and all it's horrible spin offs) if you want to go with MP4.
EDIT: BTW, in case you don't know this site, take a look at Doom9.org (http://www.doom9.org/), they're the A/V experts. You won't find a better community to answer your questions.
And IIRC, OGM is a hack, not a standardized container format.
It's not even endorsed by Xiph.org.
Now that isn't really true, is it (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/)?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=369521")
OGM isn't mentioned one single time on that website, so I'm not sure what you want to point out.
I suggest you read this: [a href="http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/2003-October/000188.html]http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/200...ber/000188.html[/url]
And IIRC, OGM is a hack, not a standardized container format.
It's not even endorsed by Xiph.org.
Now that isn't really true, is it (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/)?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369521"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's a nice page describing the Ogg container format, but it really doesn't describe OGM. From what I know, a character named Tobias took the Ogg container and hacked it to support non-Xiph codecs. So technically OGM is not Ogg, although they are very similar.
@NeDtHeOnE:
OGM actually has pretty bad overhead. Ogg (and therefore OGM) is really suited for streaming small chunks of data. But the overhead is overkill for storage. Strangely enough, Vorbis in MKV is actually
smaller than in Ogg. You miss out on some of the error-resiliance, but this is generally only a problem if you are streaming the files.
I personally like MKV, and I even have all my audio in 1-file-per-album FLAC Matroska. It supports everything you throw at it, and is extremely flexible. However, MP4 is very good as well, and is infinitely more likely to be supported by a standalone than MKV.
MP4 is a bit more restrictive when it comes to which streams it likes. Technically only MPEG codecs and an SRT-like subtitle format (forgot the name) are allowed. There are hacks around this, but it is something to look out for.
Matroska is clearly more superior than OGM.
Supports many audio formats, including Vorbis (or OGG as you may call it).
Chapter support too.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369489"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
O.k. But how can u say its superior than OGM???
newayz i think MKV has SSA support
How do u create SSA SUBTITLES .......
Ne software 2 convert .sub 2 .ssa
and how do u merge dem to MKV
and wich is the best DVD RIP software ??? How abt Gordian Knot?
And IIRC, OGM is a hack, not a standardized container format.
It's not even endorsed by Xiph.org.
Now that isn't really true, is it (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/)?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=369521")
OGM isn't mentioned one single time on that website, so I'm not sure what you want to point out.
I suggest you read this: [a href="http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/2003-October/000188.html]http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/200...ber/000188.html[/url]
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
(http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=369528")
That page still doesn't mention that .ogm is anything but a renamed .ogg, meaning a normal OGG container. At least as far as I can tell from the text.
[a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGM]This article[/url] seems to suggest it, tho. It also seems that current OGG-tools do decode the "hax0red" OGM format, making just normal OGG. Is this a faulty conclusion?
O.k. But how can u say its superior than OGM???
newayz i think MKV has SSA support
How do u create SSA SUBTITLES .......
Ne software 2 convert .sub 2 .ssa
and how do u merge dem to MKV
and wich is the best DVD RIP software ??? How abt Gordian Knot?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=369533")
Why MKV is superior to OGM (off the top of my head):
* smaller overhead (see [a href="http://alexander-noe.de/Video/Documents/containers.pdf]this comparison[/url])
* seekable!
(*)* more subtitle options, including fading text and embedded fonts
* support for variable frame rate video
* all the cool kids are doing it (most anime subbers I noticed who used OGM have since switched to MKV)
* not an unsupported hack!
* eventual support for DVD features like menus and buttons (I think there are some proof-of-concept files floating around)
* weird advanced features such as sub chapters, playlists, and block additions
On the other hand, OGM is better for the following reasons:
* better error resiliance (usually doesn't matter on a hard drive anyway)
Kind of a lopsided comparison, I think
(*) You may have noticed that seeking in OGM files... sucks. OGMs don't have a seek table, so seeking involves a sort of guess-and-check method. MKVs tend to have a seek table, which makes seeking much nicer.
That page still doesn't mention that .ogm is anything but a renamed .ogg, meaning a normal OGG container. At least as far as I can tell from the text.
This article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGM) seems to suggest it, tho. It also seems that current OGG-tools do decode the "hax0red" OGM format, making just normal OGG. Is this a faulty conclusion?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=369536")
There was a small change to the packets in OGM too. See the bottom of [a href="http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/AVIMux%20GUI/en_estimate_overhead.html]this page[/url]
I agree to whatever OMION says. How do you create an MKV file?
I want to switch to MKV too! Which tool is best to convert a DVD to an MKV file!
I agree to whatever OMION says. How do you create an MKV file?
I want to switch to MKV too! Which tool is best to convert a DVD to an MKV file!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=369542")
I make MKV files using a great program called MKVmerge (along with its corresponding GUI, called MMG). You can find the Windows version of it at the bottom of [a href="http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/downloads.html]this page[/url]. This program will not help with the ripping from DVD, it just puts all the streams together. For example, I encode my audio with Foobar, my video with x264, and my subtitles with aegisub. Then MKVmerge puts the three together.
If you want a program that can go all the way from a DVD to an MKV, then I don't know. I'm sure they exist, but I don't use them.
:
* support for variable frame rate video
:
* eventual support for DVD features like menus and buttons (I think there are some proof-of-concept files floating around)
:
You may have noticed that seeking in OGM files... sucks. OGMs don't have a seek table, so seeking involves a sort of guess-and-check method. MKVs tend to have a seek table, which makes seeking much nicer.
:
I'd like to say something positive about the Ogg container for a change (NOT OGM, so a bit off-topic): The Ogg specification leaves
plenty of room for many nice features. The Xiph.org people seem to like specifying as little as needed. Ogg is just something to encapsulate different logical streams into one physical stream. This is the most abstract container there is IMHO. The truth is, nobody of the Xiph people have yet specified how to store seek tables, menus. Variable frame rates ? Heck, the Ogg container doesn't even "know" what a frame really is. It's handling granule positions and that could be anything. So, variable framerates
are possible -- not in with the OGM way of things because OGM = Ogg + VfW/ACM restrictions + Vorbis.
So, Ogg is really a low level container thing and manages only the basics. I think Matroska is more comparable to Ogg+Ogg Skeleton. Ogg Skeleton will cover some more informations about muxed streams, possibly chapters, seek tables and stuff. But this is AFAIK a work-in-progress. Check Xiph's wiki page about Ogg Skeleton (http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/Ogg_Skeleton). ;-)
Sebi
MATROSKA RULES!!!
It is indeed very advanced and has lots of features!
Thanks,
That page still doesn't mention that .ogm is anything but a renamed .ogg, meaning a normal OGG container. At least as far as I can tell from the text.
This article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGM) seems to suggest it, tho. It also seems that current OGG-tools do decode the "hax0red" OGM format, making just normal OGG. Is this a faulty conclusion?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=369536")
Probably not.
But OGM was, and is probably still, a hacked format derived from Ogg.
I did remember I read [a href="http://www.xiph.org/container/ogm.html]this[/url] back then.
But probably not relevant anymore since, according to Wikipedia, Tobias joined Xiph.
Well, anyway, Matroska is now the most robust container I've ever used.
Plus, it's still being maintained unlike OGM, I think. =)
is there a way to get windows media player to play .mkv video?
is there a way to get windows media player to play .mkv video?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369631"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Try installing K-Lite Codec Pack.
is there a way to get windows media player to play .mkv video?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369631"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Try instaliing K-Lite Codec Pack.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369641"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
that did the trick, thanks.
Or a Matroska Pack (http://packs.matroska.org/) if anything else is too big to download.
I also use matroska exclusively with video. This is what I do:
1. Rip the DVD with DVD Decrypter
2. Convert to XviD using autoGK (only audio and video)
3. Rip the subtitles with VobSub
4. Mux the resulting AVI to matroska with MMG
I'm a little lazy with the links, so you'll have to google for the tools.
This process is pretty straightforward and easy and somewhat automated.
I found Matroska really amazing!
I have already encoded a DVD to MKV using "mkvmerge"
I have Embedded text and a CD Cover to the Video too...
But how do u view the cover and the text while playing the video?
I am using Zoom Player Professional 5 to play the video...
The seeking is really cool...!
Keep the good work MATROSKA!
Matroska is Awesome!
But I've a slight problem with the preview software "Matroska Shell Extension"
Like after converting a MPEG1 format video to MKV ... During Thumbail View, My Explorer Hungs up and terminates automatically. Iy shows some compiling error during Thumbnail view.
Though I've found the solution. A cover is compulsory for me 2 mux with the video!
Help!
Like after converting a MPEG1 format video to MKV ... During Thumbail View, My Explorer Hungs up and terminates automatically. Iy shows some compiling error during Thumbnail view.
I don't think anyone might be able to help you on this one. If it's a bug with "Matroska Shell Extension", you should file a bug report.
And it's not yet clear to me wether you have merged or muxed MPEG1 video into a MKV container or you have converted the video into another format and then muxed it. Because usually, "converting" means re-encoding the file to another format, not putting the data into another container.
Edits: typos
Like after converting a MPEG1 format video to MKV ... During Thumbail View, My Explorer Hungs up and terminates automatically. Iy shows some compiling error during Thumbnail view.
And it's not yet clear to me wether you have merged or muxed MPEG1 video into a MKV container or you have converted the video into another format and then muxed it. Because usually, "converting" means re-encoding the file to another format, not putting the data into another container.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370526"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I had converted MPEG1 format video to XviD 2 pass arnd 800 Kbps with Vorbis Audio 96 Kbps Lancer Compiled Aotuv b4.51 to MKV (muxed using mkvmerge)
...... When I got the output MKV Video . There was an error .....
and btw where should i post the bug information?
...... When I got the output MKV Video . There was an error .....
and btw where should i post the bug information?
Again, I don't think that anybody can help you. You didn't post the error, so nobody has the slightest idea what your problem might be. Have you googled for that error? This should be the first thing to do when encountering one. And concerning the bug report, send it to the author of the program you think is buggy or post it in his/her forum (if there's one). And I suggest you to visit doom9.org for questions about video. Even though HA's got a subforum, I still claim that doom9 has much more knowledge about video. HA still is mainly a forum for audiotechnology* (hence the name).
*This is only my opinion
and btw where should i post the bug information?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=370539")
[a href="http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=103757]Here.[/url]
and btw where should i post the bug information?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=370539")
[a href="http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=103757]Here.[/url]
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370618"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
THX ...
I think he meant that the "Matroska Shell Extension" is buggy (and he has problems with mkvtoolnix too), i rather think that he has somehow misconfigured mkvtoolnix and I told him to report his crash with "Matroska Shell Extension" to the author.
MATROSKA is cool.
but I'm missing some programmers support. I would like to code some Appz (Tagging, a special MKA Muxer etc.) A clean SDK with .NET support ...
Tobias
hmm, going by that comparison table on wikipedia Apple's .mov supports everything .mkv does, has been around forever (since 1991 or so?) and is also a free (as in beer) and open spec, i wonder why it never took off as much? Perhaps it is more complex to implement?
Interesting question. I have never seen any application with the option to put my streams into a MOV- container. According to wikipedia, you need some tools for this which are available on MacOS (only?). If "only" is true, then perhaps they wanted to create a container that would only allow you to create these files on a Macintosh, targeting people in video production, so if you wanted to use this flexible format, you had to buy an Apple. But I don't know if this is/was true.
I have been using OGM for movies for a long while.. and have no reason to switch to mkv.
The main reason is this: oggds (and subtit1400/vsfilter too)
thats it... that baby handles it all... multiple audio tracks, subtitles, chapters, and the title, author, description, etc. tags show up where they should.
with mkv... multiple audio tracks requires the use of morgan stream switcher.. description tags i dont even want to try to figure out the maze of xml for that... chapters, need a special 'supported' player for that kind of thing
I prefer to go lightweight, I play all my videos with mplayer2.exe (wmp 6.4)
OGM is simply the easiest for me
I use the DirectVobSub for swith the streams, or built in player suport for switch between the streams.
Also, now alexnoe made this new overhead comparison: http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-...comparison.html (http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/AVIMux%20GUI/en_overhead_comparison.html)
I also feel safer with mkv. I never had synch problems with it (can't say the same thing about ogm...), it is a well defined and stabilished format (OGM is an unnoficial hack... has the source-code or specs ever realised?) and still actively developed.
I use the DirectVobSub for swith the streams, or built in player suport for switch between the streams.
Also, now alexnoe made this new overhead comparison: http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-...comparison.html (http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/AVIMux%20GUI/en_overhead_comparison.html)
I also feel safer with mkv. I never had synch problems with it (can't say the same thing about ogm...), it is a well defined and stabilished format (OGM is an unnoficial hack... has the source-code or specs ever realised?) and still actively developed.
Specs for ogm have never existed, the source code of gabest's parser (and vdubmod) is literally is the only spec. That's the main reason support ceased so long ago, no one wants to implement a format without a spec.
MATROSKA is cool.
but I'm missing some programmers support. I would like to code some Appz (Tagging, a special MKA Muxer etc.) A clean SDK with .NET support ...
Tobias
For developer requests, please direct them to matroska-devel AT lists DOT matroska DOT org . For code / libraries, goto svn.matroska.org (use a good SVN client, like tortoisesvn for Win32).
We welcome any form of input or additions, if your apps work and you like to release them under a free license, we gladly give SVN access and you can upload their sources to our SVN tree.
For direct questions, you might try to get hold of our main devs (robux4, mosu, jcsston, alexnoe) on our IRC channel at #matroska irc.corecodec.com
Christian
matroska project admin
* eventual support for DVD features like menus and buttons (I think there are some proof-of-concept files floating around)
* weird advanced features such as sub chapters, playlists, and block additions
Ok, When i first enquired about MatRoska! I got this ^| info 4m Omion... Well! I m into MatRoska deep! But still i am 1 step away .. i.e. I dunno how to make "MENU STRUCTURES" from DVD to MKV..
Can anybody help?
As already answered to you in Doom9 forum... http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/DvdMenuXtractor/ (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/DvdMenuXtractor/)
As already answered to you in Doom9 forum... http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/DvdMenuXtractor/ (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/DvdMenuXtractor/)
I got the software allright... But I still didnt make out how to use it ..
Well Its creating.. umm... xml files for mkvmerge and splitting and demuxing into m2v,ac3 files... and the output (menu) mkv file contains m2v .... and talkin abt menu how does it work?
It doesnt work like DVD! Does it? and one more thing ... Even the menu should be compressed .. like XviD stream and vorbis stream muxed in mKV.
How does the menu work??
In case you're not crossposting (which I strongly discourage), you should stick to the other forum: doom9.
Really, you can't expect people here to go to Doom9 for you and search for an answer to your question every time.
I don't want to sound rude, but I think the "official" forums for all the software you use isn't at HA... :wink: