HydrogenAudio

Hydrogenaudio Forum => Listening Tests => Topic started by: Kamedo2 on 2024-05-06 19:20:29

Title: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: Kamedo2 on 2024-05-06 19:20:29
Abstract:
Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC and Ogg Vorbis at around 134 kbps, and the Fabrice Bellard (https://bellard.org/)'s new AI-based codec TSAC: Very Low Bitrate Audio Compression (https://bellard.org/tsac/) at 7.5kbps.

Encoders:
Except exhale v1.1.9, all of them are latest as of 7 May 2024.
xHE-AAC: exhale-V1.1.9-00423757_x64 (https://www.rarewares.org/aac-encoders.php), exhale-v1.2.1_x64 (https://www.rarewares.org/aac-encoders.php)
Ogg Vorbis: aoTuV_b6.03_2020. (https://ao-yumi.github.io/aotuv_web/)
TSAC: Windows version (experimental): tsac-2024-04-08-win64.zip. (https://bellard.org/tsac/)

xHE-AAC commandlines:
exhale-V1.1.9-00423757_x64\exhale 5 in.wav out.mp4
exhale-v1.2.1_x64\exhale 5 in.wav out.mp4
ffmpeg109823 -c:a libfdk_aac -i out.mp4 -c:a pcm_f32le out.wav

Ogg Vorbis commandlines:
aoTuV_b6.03_2020\venc64 -q3.7 in.wav out.ogg
oggdecV1.10.1\oggdec -b 5 out.ogg --wavout out.wav

TSAC commandlines:
tsac-2024-04-08-win64\tsac -v -m tsac-2024-04-08-win64\dac_stereo_q8.bin -M tsac-2024-04-08-win64\tsac_stereo_q8.bin -q 12 c in.wav out.tsac
tsac-2024-04-08-win64\tsac -v -m tsac-2024-04-08-win64\dac_stereo_q8.bin -M tsac-2024-04-08-win64\tsac_stereo_q8.bin d out.tsac out.wav

Sample tracks:
15 sound samples from Kamedo2's samples (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,98003.msg815018.html)(full download (https://listening-test.coresv.net/samples/samples.zip)).

Total 15 diverse music sound samples, including highly critical samples.

Hardware:
Sony PSP-3000 + AKG K712.

Results (only traditional codecs, at around 134 kbps):
(https://listening-test.coresv.net/img2/26xhe-main-en2x.png)

Results (including AI codec at 7.5kbps, it is not a bitrate-equalized comparison):
(https://listening-test.coresv.net/img2/26xhe-main-en2x2.png)
(https://listening-test.coresv.net/img2/26xhe-main-en2x2-tracks2.png)

Conclusions & Observations:

Anova analysis:
Code: [Select]
FRIEDMAN version 1.24 (Jan 17, 2002) http://ff123.net/
Blocked ANOVA analysis

Number of listeners: 15
Critical significance:  0.05
Significance of data: 0.00E+000 (highly significant)
---------------------------------------------------------------
ANOVA Table for Randomized Block Designs Using Ratings

Source of         Degrees     Sum of    Mean
variation         of Freedom  squares   Square    F      p

Total               59          86.42
Testers (blocks)    14           1.00
Codecs eval'd        3          83.62   27.87   651.96  0.00E+000
Error               42           1.80    0.04
---------------------------------------------------------------
Fisher's protected LSD for ANOVA:   0.152

Means:

exh119   exh121   ogg128   tsac12  
  4.56     4.55     4.45     1.79  

---------------------------- p-value Matrix ---------------------------

         exh121   ogg128   tsac12  
exh119   0.861    0.141    0.000*  
exh121            0.193    0.000*  
ogg128                     0.000*  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

exh119 is better than tsac12
exh121 is better than tsac12
ogg128 is better than tsac12

Raw data:
Code: [Select]
exhale v1.1.9	exhale v1.2.1	aoTuV beta6.03	tsac-2024-04-08-win64
%feature 3 xHE-AAC xHE-AAC Ogg Vorbis TSAC: Very Low Bitrate Audio Compression
%feature 10 test tracks avg/albums avg test tracks avg/albums avg test tracks avg/albums avg test tracks avg/albums avg
%feature 11 138.7kbps/130.4kbps 139.0kbps/129.6kbps 143.2kbps/126.1kbps 7.4kbps/7.5kbps
%feature 12 exhale 5 in.wav out.mp4 exhale 5 in.wav out.mp4 venc64 -q3.7 in.wav out.ogg tsac -v -q 12 c in.wav out.tsac
5.000 4.500 4.400 2.300
4.400 4.500 5.000 1.700
5.000 5.000 4.300 1.900
4.800 4.600 4.400 1.900
4.400 4.600 4.800 1.800
4.500 4.600 4.700 1.500
4.600 4.700 4.300 2.100
4.700 4.500 4.600 1.700
4.500 4.400 4.700 1.700
4.100 4.300 4.400 1.600
4.400 4.500 4.200 1.500
4.700 4.500 4.300 1.800
4.500 4.700 4.300 1.700
4.500 4.400 4.200 1.900
4.300 4.400 4.100 1.800
%samples 41_30sec Perc.
%samples finalfantasy Strings
%samples ATrain Jazz
%samples BigYellow Pops
%samples FloorEssence Techno
%samples macabre Classic
%samples mybloodrusts Guitar
%samples Quizas Latin
%samples VelvetRealm Techno
%samples Amefuribana Pops
%samples Trust Gospel
%samples Waiting Rock
%samples Experiencia Latin
%samples Heart to Heart Pops
%samples Tom's Diner Acappella

Other tests:

Title: Re: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: Lampion on 2024-05-06 19:58:12
ahaha, wow, TSAC-encoded files look painful to listen to!
Title: Re: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: Kamedo2 on 2024-05-06 20:04:53
ahaha, wow, TSAC-encoded files look painful to listen to!

Please note that TSAC used only 1/18th of the disk space of these competitors.
Title: Re: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: C.R.Helmrich on 2024-05-07 09:00:18
Thanks a lot, Kamedo2, for your meticulous listening! I know how much work blind listening tests at these bitrates are. Some distilled observations and connections with previous discussions on HA:


Chris
Title: Re: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: 2012 on 2024-05-07 11:03:45
but they don't scale to transparency... at least not in 2024.

They don't target transparency, which is why I think it would be more useful if:

* Samples used in tests are not handpicked for being challenging, but picked for being representative of average everyday use (talk show, pop music, ..etc).

* Classical codecs are tested at a much lower bitrate than in this test. Maybe a something in the range of 32-48kbps.
Title: Re: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: Julien on 2024-05-07 14:06:58
Thanks a lot Kamedo for yet another very interesting listening test.

Nice to see Vorbis being tested and yielding quite impressive results in the ~128kps range. Is there any particular reason why you chose Vorbis in this test?
Title: Re: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: Kamedo2 on 2024-05-07 15:32:54
Nice to see Vorbis being tested and yielding quite impressive results in the ~128kps range. Is there any particular reason why you chose Vorbis in this test?

Because it hasn't been tested for some years.
Title: Re: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: C.R.Helmrich on 2024-05-08 09:14:56
... I think it would be more useful if:

* Samples used in tests are not handpicked for being challenging, but picked for being representative of average everyday use (talk show, pop music, ..etc).

* Classical codecs are tested at a much lower bitrate than in this test. Maybe a something in the range of 32-48kbps.

Fair points which generally apply to the design of blind listening tests, but (1) the handpicked critical samples are challenging for classical audio codecs* - notice how no sample really stands out with a particularly bad score for TSAC, (2) we have several blind tests of classical codecs at 32, 40, and 48 kbps by Kamedo2 and guruboolez - even there, the scores average way above 2.0 IIRC.

* The most challenging content for AI codecs that I know of, Glockenspiel and triangle, isn't included in Kamedo2's test(s), by the way.

Chris
Title: Re: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: Julien on 2024-05-08 17:35:34
Thanks a lot Kamedo for yet another very interesting listening test.

Nice to see Vorbis being tested and yielding quite impressive results in the ~128kps range. Is there any particular reason why you chose Vorbis in this test?
Nice to see Vorbis being tested and yielding quite impressive results in the ~128kps range. Is there any particular reason why you chose Vorbis in this test?

Because it hasn't been tested for some years.

This is a great idea. Thanks a lot for your hard work.
Title: Re: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: guruboolez on 2024-05-08 17:56:55
Nice work Kamedo, as usual.
I really appreciate that we have a rational and well-organized evaluation of TSAC. Sound quality seems really far from transparency with music but the bitrate is truly amazing. I felt stupid when I posted here (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,120997.0.html) a listening test at only 12 kbps and I didn't expect that someone will get deeper in the abyss. Good job!
Title: Re: Personal blind sound quality comparison of xHE-AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and TSAC
Post by: MihaiPopa12346 on 2024-05-12 08:34:48
@Kamedo2! Try on my samples! https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,125921.html