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Topic: Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk (Read 8890 times) previous topic - next topic
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Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

At the moment, I have the soundtrack from my camcorder (not very good), or the recording function built-in to my Sansa clip (even worse). I'd like to capture their voices a little better before they grow up!

I just want to record my kids singing, sometimes close-up at home (preferably one mic per child so it can be mixed later!), sometimes from a distance in a school hall.

20 years ago I'd have done this with a portable tape recorder, very gentle / unobtrusive AGC, and a half-decent external microphone. And the results would have been far better than I get from my camcorder's built in mic!

I've used a Roland digital recorder, which seems complete overkill for this price-wise, but the handling noise makes using the internal microphones hopeless when you're trying to point it at children (who may wonder around!).


I don't want to spend a fortune. I don't want equipment that screams "steal me, I'm valuable" or that will break easily. I just want something half decent.

Would external microphones be best? If so, which, and which recorder.

I don't want to spend much. If £50-£100 bought a good enough tape recorder + mics 20 years ago; I don't see why I should have to spend £200 for the modern equivalent when things like mp3 players are 100x better and 5x cheaper than the equivalent 20 years ago.

Any suggestions?

Cheers,
David.

P.S. This will sometimes be used on its own, and sometimes used to capture a better sound track to replace the one from the camcorder.

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #1 –
In case you understand some German or can comprehend the Google translation you can try this page: http://www.audiotranskription.de/aufnahmegeraete

They sell these products but also do some interesting tests and provide sound samples. Most of the time they use the built-in mics though (which usually aren't half bad).

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #2 –
My wife uses a mic unit on her iPod for similar activities. It's an iTalk mic.
She also has a "sansa" mp3 mic recorder.
Kevin Graf :: aka Speedskater

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #3 –
I've not used it myself, but I've heard nothing but good things about Samson's Zoom H2 recorder, and certainly every sample clip I've heard from it has been very impressive, especially the low noise level.

Not sure how it would do as far as handling noise, though...

It has 1/8" jacks for both external mic and line in, so you'd at least have the option of some kind of external sound source.

It can usually be found for around or even under US$150...not sure how that translates across the pond.
"Not sure what the question is, but the answer is probably no."

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #4 –
Im not an expert in the £150 price range but for almost 5dB more you can buy the Zoom H4n which got very good reviews from (semi)pro users.
It allows up to 4-ch recording and has 2 inputs for external mics.
If you want to record your kids from a distance without putting (intimidating) external mics close to them, you could concider buying one or two "shotgun" mics.
In twenty years your kids will probably make fun about this ancient technology, but it works well

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #5 –
The closer is the mic to the source, the “cleaner” is the sound picked-up of ambient noise and reverberation.

Even in professional sound studios for speech, well muffled and damped, distances from microphone more than 0,5…1 m make sound more reverberated and less clear.

And at forums people usually seek for miraculous microphones and/or recorders for to have crystal clear sound recorded in not acoustically isolated and not muffled rooms, especially at distances where
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
children… may wander around


Even an “ordinary” electret microphone for “chat” on the Net, of good quality, will give a better sound quality in a well treated room and at a sufficiently close distance, than the best mike put in the middle of a reverberating room, recording people speaking/singing wandering around at several meters from it…

The rule for an “ordinary” habitable room, is a mic in good order at the closest distance possible. With an important reserve: at distances less than 35…50 cm, any mic must be protected with a “pop filter”. Otherwise, severe pops resulting from plosive consonants, and at very close distances, even from breathing, can spoil the recording irreversibly. A deplorable phenomenon I hear at some “FM radio studios” nowadays… But never at really professional sound studios. The reason by which I was shocked by such pops when I was listening for the first time on a sound system with an acoustical FR practically linear down to 25 Hz, to the “classical” studio recording of “Rock Around the Clock” by Bill Haley, of 1954…

All these reasonings are confirmed by my personal “home” practice and listening for several years to announcers in radio studios.

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #6 –
Can your camcorder take an external sound input?  If so, maybe get a couple of wireless mics to clip on your kids and you can still get the video along with better sound.

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Kees de Visser on
Im not an expert in the £150 price range but for almost 5dB more you can buy the Zoom H4n which got very good reviews from (semi)pro users.
It allows up to 4-ch recording and has 2 inputs for external mics.
If you want to record your kids from a distance without putting (intimidating) external mics close to them, you could concider buying one or two "shotgun" mics.

Yes, this one looks excellent - the XLR inputs are definitely a major upgrade - but Kees, since it appears to be almost exactly twice the price of the H2, shouldn't it be 3dB (or 6dB) more, instead of 5?
"Not sure what the question is, but the answer is probably no."

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #8 –
Yes, I understand that closer (unless too close) = better. I'm not expecting miracles from the other end of a room (or church!). But at the moment the only close mic I have is in the Sansa Clip+ and that's really poor. As a distant mic, the camcorder is useless (faces the ceiling, picks up miniDV tape head whine and handling noise). Shotgun mic is a great idea - will probably get one (or two?!).

The camcorder (HV20) does have external mic input, but I wouldn't go that way with external mics because (IMO!) it's too limiting. I hadn't thought of wireless, but still I think I'd rather use an external recorder +wired or built-in mics and sync in post. I've done this a few times without problems.

The devices suggested so far look great, but not exactly cheap.

Cheers,
David.

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #9 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Yes, I understand that closer (unless too close) = better. I'm not expecting miracles from the other end of a room (or church!).


It is hard to get the mic too close to the person speaking in most rooms. I routinely use  Countryman E6 microphones with either AT or Shure wireless transmitters.  They generally beat lavs and lectern mics for natural, clear sound. Some of our  vocalists prefer  CAD 95s with AT wireless transmitters attached, even compared to the E6s.  They are arguably worked even closer than the E6s.

At church, your best bet is probably a feed from the existing sound system. A number of strategies exist for collecting tracks from very close to the mic inputs of the console.

I recently finished a shoot of a 25 minute  interview that used a cheap DV camcorder, a digital still camera that was alleged to make HD movies, and a Microtrack using the mic pair that came with it.  The sound from the camcorder and the still camera's video feature were pretty nasty. Basically they were only useful to use as a guide to hand-synch the audio from the Microtrack.  I just put the Microtrack on the lamp table that was next to the person being interviewed.  The room was a suite in an assisted care facility.  Once hand synched in post, the two cameras and the Microtrack stayed in lip synch for the duration.

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #10 –
Yes, I've found the clocks of most digital devices (not necessarily cheap vintage sound cards) stay locked well enough (e.g. to within half a video frame) over several minutes - sometimes tens of minutes.

The reviews at Amazon suggest the Microtrack's own microphone isn't very good, even for speech, but then I don't trust Amazon reviews which is why I'm asking here!.

e.g.

M-audio MicroTrack II
Zoom H2
Tascam DR-07
Roland R05
Edirol R-09HR (I've used one of these - but handling noise was an issue and it's so expensive!)

Any others I should look at?

Cheers,
David.

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #11 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Yes, I've found the clocks of most digital devices (not necessarily cheap vintage sound cards) stay locked well enough (e.g. to within half a video frame) over several minutes - sometimes tens of minutes.


Yes, the worst clock drift I've seen has been in audio interfaces.

Quote
The reviews at Amazon suggest the Microtrack's own microphone isn't very good, even for speech, but then I don't trust Amazon reviews which is why I'm asking here!.


I've had good results with my Microtrack's in-the-box plug-in microphone pair,  and a friend with very lengthy and high end pro credentials also likes his,  One plus is that the microphone array can be twisted around without moving the body of the recorder.

I had been carrying around a small console and pro-grade microphones for VO  jobs, but I got lazy the last two gigs and obtained results that are as least as good as before, in relatively dead rooms with lots of soft  furniture.  I'd still use an outboard hypercardioid mic in a reverberent space, and pro grade mics for a critical recording of music. My favorite mic for quick music gigs in  good halls is the Rode NT4.

Quote
M-audio MicroTrack II
Zoom H2
Tascam DR-07
Roland R05
Edirol R-09HR (I've used one of these - but handling noise was an issue and it's so expensive!)

Any others I should look at?


A very close friend looked at the Microtrack, and ended up going with the Zoom H4. He teaches an audio production class at a nearby large university, and requires his students to purchase one. I suspect that for most people, the H2 is just as good as the H4.  At this point the pricing of the Microtrack and the H4 are very different, but that was not so at the time he did his evaluation.

I've not heard anybody say anything bad about any of the *name* players in this market segment. So if money is important to you, buy the cheapest one, I guess.  The big difference among them in my eyes is the robustness of the microphone input jacks. Of course none of them were around when I bought my Microtrack, so it was a far easier choice.

Portable recorder (and microphones?) for recording kids singing + talk

Reply #12 –
Judging from the page I linked to further up, the Olympus LS-5 seems to be good option. But according to those guys, handling noise is always a serious issue, regardless of the device, when using the internal mics.