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Topic: Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox? (Read 11826 times) previous topic - next topic
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Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Hi all,

I've had a 1st gen iPod nano since they came out (5 years ago now!) and have been using rockbox ever since I discovered it.

I'm loathed to give up rockbox as I want replaygain support, last.fm, gapless support etc.

Recently I've been getting data aborts when playing and the battery life is starting to disappear rapidly now.

Can anyone recommend a replacement? Must be small, able to run rockbox and at least 4GB.

I also currently run a line-out into  FiiO headphone amp

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Paul.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #1 –
How about iPod nano 4gen?

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #2 –
The Sansa Fuze works well with Rockbox, but you have to make sure to get the first version, which means used, and even then is a little tricky because there’s no external way to tell the difference (you have to ask the seller to tell you the firmware version). I got lucky, but it was several months ago.

It looks like the line output is available via a DIY cable. The unit also has an FM radio and micro SD card slot in addition to the internal flash (mine is 4 GB). I also have a 1st pen Nano, and the screen on the Fuze is a lot bigger (which is nice if your eyes are going like mine). 

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #3 –
Clip+ w/ Rockbox.  You can even ditch the amp since the Clip+'s internal amp is way more capable then the Fiio line.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: saratoga on
Clip+ w/ Rockbox.  You can even ditch the amp since the Clip+'s internal amp is way more capable then the Fiio line.


x2.  I've got a Clip+ with rockbox and it's fantastic.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #5 –
Apple will exchange new iPod nano 1st gen from an aging one at Apple Store 
I done so in this March. The fee was about $60 in Japan.
<name>madoka</name>

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #6 –
I'll have a look at the Clip+ then  Thanks folks.

madoka, I guess if they do it over here they'll replace it with a new nano which I'm not after as it can't be rockboxed.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #7 –
Quick question, it says it's unstable on the Clip+, how are you folks finding it?

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: probedb on
Quick question, it says it's unstable on the Clip+, how are you folks finding it?


I've got version that is a few weeks old - r26535m-100603.  It's really stable and works well.  The version before that - not so much.

I get the bootloader and rockbox files from this thread - http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53702

dfkt (the OP) makes some custom changes to the code and provides links in the newer posts at the end of the thread.  He is a sensible fellow so any customization he creates to the base rockbox install is typically done for good reason.

I'm not sure if I'm running a dfkt specific build.  If I remember correctly I downloaded my version straight from the rockbox site.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: odigg on
I'm not sure if I'm running a dfkt specific build.  If I remember correctly I downloaded my version straight from the rockbox site.

You are not running "stock" Rockbox.
Quote
I've got version that is a few weeks old - r26535m-100603.

The "m" means modified.
ie - SVN revision 26535 (modified) -  2010 - June 3rd.
Creature of habit.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #10 –
rockbox on Clip+ works like a charm. It's incredible what it get's out of this tiny device, the rockbox equalizer and crossfeed are fantastic. The only problem though is that current rockbox builds on Clip+ are a little silent IMO (at least compared to the original firmware). There are some custom builds around which increase the volume (like this one).

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: bryant on
The Sansa Fuze works well with Rockbox, but you have to make sure to get the first version


Most v2 work fine as well.  I'm running Rockbox on a Fuze v2.  For up to date info the best place to go is Rockbox SanDisk Sansa AMS Port Page

If you don't require video playback and micro SD slot then a slightly older Clip is probably the best Sansa for Rockbox.  YMMV but they can still be found new here in UK, for example on Amazon you can buy a Clip (not +) with 2/4/8GB but the Clip+ is a little cheaper.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Takla on
If you don't require video playback and micro SD slot then a slightly older Clip is probably the best Sansa for Rockbox.

Why? Clip+ is cheaper, better (microSD slot!) and recent rockbox builds work every bit as well on Clip+ as on any other AMS device.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #13 –
Cheers again folks. Will see about getting a Clip+ when I get paid this month and a nice microSD card

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: probedb on
Cheers again folks. Will see about getting a Clip+ when I get paid this month and a nice microSD card


Mine just arrived in the mail today; I purchased an 8GB model to which I've added a 4GB µSD card.

Right off the bat I'm impressed with the build quality as it feels very sturdy, like it'd take being dropped every now and again. It sounds great through my Etymotic ER•6s on a normal EQ setting (not one for Rock, Pop etc) and is a breeze to transfer to and from as it's basically a mass storage device. I do this through foobar2000's File Ops feature incidentally.

I'm now considering transcoding (don't panic, using FLAC files) my OGG files to q3.0 (currently using q5.0) just to squeeze more usage out of the player's capacity. Overall I'm very happy with it.
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
 

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Soap on
Quote
I've got version that is a few weeks old - r26535m-100603.

The "m" means modified.
ie - SVN revision 26535 (modified) -  2010 - June 3rd.


Thanks for the info.  I recommend the dfkt modified version!

Finally, one complaint about the Clip+ and Rockbox.  The screen of the Clip is pretty small and so it can seem pretty cramped with even small text sizes.  The Clip+ has a particular design feature (it seems to have a two part LCD) so bigger text sizes don't always mesh well with the screen.  Some of the themes are well made and address to issue as well as they can.

It's not a deal breaker though and is a minor issue.  Rockbox is well worth it.  In hindsight I might have been more pleased with a Fuze.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: probedb on
I'm loathed to give up rockbox as I want replaygain support, last.fm, gapless support etc.

FWIW, the iPod nano can provide replaygain support through exact mapping of RG values to soundcheck values as well as gapless playback.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Northpack on
Quote from: Takla on
If you don't require video playback and micro SD slot then a slightly older Clip is probably the best Sansa for Rockbox.

Why? Clip+ is cheaper, better (microSD slot!) and recent rockbox builds work every bit as well on Clip+ as on any other AMS device.



Rockbox Sansa Wiki

Quote
Specific problems

    * USB: Some work has been done on USB (in svn). The register addresses for the USB controller in the AS3525 datasheet match the ones in the linux driver for the AMD 5536 UDC (amd5536udc.c and amd5536udc.h) A data sheet for the 5536 SOC is available here with USB description. You can also look at the (working) code for Ipod Nano2G which looks similar. There is a linux driver on denx repository for "Synopsys HS OTG" written by Synopsys. The order of some registers mismatch but this can help anyway. The patches to linux 2.6 for as352x and as353x are in our possession, a lot of information can be found in them.
    * Clipv1/c200v2/m200v4: Casual playback crashes. See FS#10605
    * Battery: battery life is shorter than when using the OF, especially for Fuzev1, e200v2, and Clipv1. See SansaRuntime
    * Clip+/Clipv2/Fuzev2: when using the wake-up alarm, the player sometimes fails to power off. Workaround: force a shutdown and set wake-up again.
    * Clipv2: there is some very annoying noise which can be heard especially at low volume.
    * Fuzev2: some models can only be upgraded to 2.3.31 or 2.3.31 unmodified OF version : can't downgrade to earlier unmodified OF versions or upgrade to any rockbox patched OF version. There is probably some additional upgrade file check we have not discovered.
    * Clip+: some Clip+ players seem to use a yet unidentified Silabs radio chip (unlike others which use an si4702), see also FmTunerHardware
    * Clip+/Clipv2/Fuzev2: playback is about 1.1% slower than it should be, see also FS#11385
    * Clip+/Clipv2/Fuzev2: The players might crash in a state where hardware power off is not possible. You have to wait for the battery to discharge fully, it might take up to 3 days. See this forum post


(my bold)

I suggested visiting this page in my previous post for good reasons.  The v2 Sansas are not stable yet and some problems remain.  Many people, including me, will be happy now with Rockbox on the Fuze v2  or Clip+ or Clip v2.  Some people definitely won't be.  The big issues are probably  lack of radio (possible) and 1.1% slow playback (definite); if you have perfect pitch and/or you want to play along to tracks this is a showstopper.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Takla on
I suggested visiting this page in my previous post for good reasons.  The v2 Sansas are not stable yet and some problems remain.


All of that applies to the Clipv2, which is almost certainly what he'd get if he bought a Clip now.  Plus the Clipv1 is hardly a better choice given that its known issues involve "playback crashes" as opposed to "incomplete FM support" 

IMO the Clip+ is probably your best bet for a newish Sansa player.  The e200v1 is much more stable and works amazingly, but its pretty hard to find these days.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Takla on
The big issues are probably  lack of radio (possible) and 1.1% slow playback (definite); if you have perfect pitch and/or you want to play along to tracks this is a showstopper.

I think there has been a commit recently adding support for the differing radio chip (but AFAIK European Clip's don't have this chip). The original clip also has a pitch issue, though not as much as the Clip+. However 1% isn't noticable for most people in normal listening conditions (PAL movies usually have pitch raised by 4%!). If you need pitch-perfect playback (i.e. if you wan't to play along a track) it's actually no problem with rockbox - you can change the pitch in 0.1% increments during playback. Just set it to 101.1% and you'll get perfect pitch. The only reason this isn't the default setting is because it takes a little more battery power.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #20 –
Rockbox can dual boot with the original firmware so the radio not working in rockbox a minor issue (to me).  When I want to listen to the Radio I boot into the Sansa firmware.

As for the pitch/speed issue, it seems like a lot of people haven't noticed it else the web would be flooded with complaints about it.  It's detectable if you are trying to do time synced testing with some other hardware, but easy to miss in typical listening.

That being said, it still is an issue.  Considering the technological advancement of PMPs, it's strange to see it at all.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #21 –
I did notice the pitch issue which is a little bizarre in this day and age. I'll just have to see if it's noticable and if it is do what Northpack suggested.

greynol, the irritating thing about sound check is there's no separation of album and track gains and I listen to a wide variety of stuff so it can be noticable when on random play when you've added album gain. Plus for firmware it means installing iTunes which is the biggest, most bloated piece of cack ever now.....but that's an entirely different discussion

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #22 –
Pre-scale your tracks with album gain and then turn on soundcheck for track gain.  At least that's how I'd do it, though I only pre-scale for album gain (I have no use for track gain).

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #23 –
Quote from: greynol on
Pre-scale your tracks with album gain and then turn on soundcheck for track gain.  At least that's how I'd do it, though I only pre-scale for album gain (I have no use for track gain).


There's still the whole iTunes problem  Plus a nano is still several times the price of a Clip+.

Replacement for an aging 1st gen nano w/rockbox?

Reply #24 –
The pitch issue is a tradeoff made because the Clip is a ultra low power device (you get 8 hours of playback out of 290mAh!!). Technically pitch-perfect playback is quite trivial (and possible on rockbox via pitch setting) but due to the use of buffering more battery expensive. For maximum effiency, the CPU clock has to be a multiple of the sampling frequency... this doesn't work with 44.1khz, so the nearest possible multiplier is used, resulting in 1% pitch error.

@saratoga: please correct me if I'm wrong