As a side-question, there seems in the audiophile world to be some idea that using a 5.1 setup to listen to stereo is some sort of crime against music - is it?  Is there any objective reason for thinking that using the front L/R for stereo is a bad idea?

As a side-question, there seems in the audiophile world to be some idea that using a 5.1 setup to listen to stereo is some sort of crime against music - is it?  Is there any objective reason for thinking that using the front L/R for stereo is a bad idea?

Sounds like you already have all you need for the foreseeable future. Why do you want to upgrade your receiver?

The best reason to upgrade given the times I'd think would be HDMI compatibility, but you'd need an HDMI device for your PC as well (and that's assuming you already have an HDMI/DVI monitor or TV). If you wanna do that (and I don't think it would suit you, SPDIF seems perfectly OK for your use), then the new ATI 5000 series graphics cards would be best. The problem is that the cheapest now is about $120 or so, so you'd better wait a few months until the lower end ones come out which would be perfectly acceptable and still light years ahead of the G33 GPU you have.

Quote from: davidos on 2009-10-26 23:53:18

As a side-question, there seems in the audiophile world to be some idea that using a 5.1 setup to listen to stereo is some sort of crime against music - is it?  Is there any objective reason for thinking that using the front L/R for stereo is a bad idea?

What do they say? That just the fact of having a 5.1 system but using the two fronts only for stereo music is worse than just having two speakers? Cause that's just crazy.

As a side-question, there seems in the audiophile world to be some idea that using a 5.1 setup to listen to stereo is some sort of crime against music - is it?  Is there any objective reason for thinking that using the front L/R for stereo is a bad idea?

Quote from: andy o on 2009-10-27 00:42:54

The best reason to upgrade given the times I'd think would be HDMI compatibility, but you'd need an HDMI device for your PC as well (and that's assuming you already have an HDMI/DVI monitor or TV). If you wanna do that (and I don't think it would suit you, SPDIF seems perfectly OK for your use), then the new ATI 5000 series graphics cards would be best. The problem is that the cheapest now is about $120 or so, so you'd better wait a few months until the lower end ones come out which would be perfectly acceptable and still light years ahead of the G33 GPU you have.

... from what you say here, seems like the sound chips are most likely the 'weakest link'.  Doesn't using SPDIF get around that - all 'enhancements' are turned off, so it should just be whatever is in the digital signal, I thought, but I see from other comments elsewhere that it's hard to be sure.

You're right though... the budget on getting this setup in the first place had to include TV tuner cards, hard drive, OS (twice, given the timing - Vista, then W7), and so on, so high end graphics/sound cards with HDMI wasn't on the agenda.  But all that stuff will be commodity pretty soon, I would guess, and I can worry about it then.

Quote from: davidos on 2009-10-26 23:53:18

As a side-question, there seems in the audiophile world to be some idea that using a 5.1 setup to listen to stereo is some sort of crime against music - is it?  Is there any objective reason for thinking that using the front L/R for stereo is a bad idea?

There are several reasons for this. None of which are really built upon firm foundations.

1. Multichannel doesn't sell as well as stereo in some countries. Places where space is at a premium, such as Japan and the UK
2. Stereo sales people struggle to overcome the objection that two speakers in the room are two too many
3. There's more profit to be made from two big boxes from a boutique loudspeaker maker than a multichannel or HTiB system
4. Boutique amp makers lack the funds to sign up to Dolby, DTS or THX licenses. It's easier to spin a line about audio quality than admit the company is too small to play with the big boys
5. Boutique amp makers lack the skills to implement multichannel. It's easier to spin a line about audio quality than admit otherwise
6. Audiophiles like their systems locked to the birth of stereo. They rejected quadraphonic in the 1970s, the same people (and it is the same people, just 35 years older and more curmudgeonly) reject multichannel today

Until recently, Hi-Fi News in the UK tried to recommend multichannel products alongside traditional stereo. It backfired so much the magazine has now reverted to its National Geographic look-a-like yellow banded design, harking back to the 1970s. Multichannel is now an afterthought.

As for the size issue, that was one of my criteria for the receiver I chose for my HTPC, the Yamaha RX-V463 which at 435mm x 150mm x 355mm was the smallest I found with the inputs I wanted. However the HDMI is only 1.2a and recently I find myself wishing it had HDMI v1.3. I never use the HDMI so it isn't a big concern, but I might use it if it had 1.3 and I got Digital Cable or FiOS. Mostly I use mine for music with the occassional DVD and sometimes ATSC cable. SPDIF and HDMI by-pass the on-board sound of the PC so only the decoder in the receiver matters. The Yamaha uses Burr-Brown 192kHz/24-bit DACs which are fairly well regarded (from my reading) in home theatre. There seems to be little difference in an amps sound quality these days from brand to brand though HDMI quality does vary, so buy the one with the other features you need, and as your Pioneer is meeting your needs then I would stick with it and maybe spend that upgrade money on speakers, a bigger monitor, or something that would be a more noticeable upgrade.

If the system you have sounds good and gives you pleasure, enjoy it! 

Until recently, Hi-Fi News in the UK tried to recommend multichannel products alongside traditional stereo. It backfired so much the magazine has now reverted to its National Geographic look-a-like yellow banded design, harking back to the 1970s. Multichannel is now an afterthought.

Yeah, the most significant difference most probably won't be made by the receiver, but by your speakers. If it is a home theater in a box, then your speakers are probably small satellites. I would upgrade those first. The part about what audiophiles say about 5.1 vs a "dedicated" stereo setup is baloney, for my money.

I wasn't saying anything about the quality of the sound chips actually. If you're outputting digital anyway, there's no DAC or analog audio involved in the PC, so an SPDIF output will be just as good as an HDMI output for 44.1-96 kHz stereo audio (depending on the capabilities of the devices, sometimes they can't do all sampling rates they should, like your SPDIF device can't do 96). Right now the ATI devices are the most compatible of all HDMI devices I've tried (I don't know about Intel, but you can't have that unless you switch motherboards anyway). All ATI 5000 series HDMI devices will be the same across the line, so my point was that since they're graphic cards primarily, you might not need even the cheapest that's available now (the 5750 which is still very powerful for an HTPC).

If you can, more power wouldn't hurt directly but for instance if you want a fanless solution either you'd have to buy an aftermarket cooler or wait and see if they come up with one. It's also a double slot and many HTPC users use smaller cases, and your mobo is mATX which already has limited expansion slots. The 5600 or even 5500 series that will eventually come out should be perfect HTPC cards, and will come very cheap and will run very cool. I have a 4670 and have power to spare for HTPC use even when using GPU-intensive filters like madVR (video renderer) or ffdshow video processing.

I think the implication was a bit crazier than that. It wasn't multichannel music vs. stereo music what the OP was told about. It seems it was that listening to a dedicated stereo setup with only 2 speakers and separate amps would be better than listening to stereo music via a receiver and a 5.1 setup, using only the front stereo speakers.

One thing, sometimes HTIB speakers and amps are matched, maybe you should look first at your receiver and speakers' specs, especially impedance and power. It's pretty likely that your receiver will be able to drive other speakers though. What is the model of the receiver and speakers, by the way?

I don't know who's holding back here... I suspect it's the audiophile believers. The magazines were all pro multichannel for a while - it gives them the chance to discuss more products and new technologies (and a multichannel speaker review takes up more space than a stereo speaker review). Many of the audiophile companies also make (or made) multichannel products. But that seems to be on the wane and even Japanese companies that abandoned two-channel have readopted it again for some markets.

Anyway, I think you're fine the way you are now. The next significant upgrade I think would be lossless digital multichannel which implies HDMI, and for that you'll need to update more than the receiver. I'd do it only if you plan on watching a lot of bluray content or when you get a new HDTV anyway.