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Topic: Example of Mix versus Master (Read 8169 times) previous topic - next topic
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Example of Mix versus Master

I'm providing a song clip in mix form (pre-mastering) and in mastered form.  I think it might help people understand the differences between a mix (as delivered to a mastering engineer) and a mastered version.

The mix is my own work, for the singer, Violette, and the mastered version was handled by a mastering engineer.

In this case, the mastering engineer applied EQ, reverb, and dynamic range compression, which is exactly what I would have liked for him to do.  I avoided doing this kind of processing on the mix, to allow the mastering engineer as much freedom as possible to 'color' the mix as he saw fit.  In my opinion, he did a good job.  The resulting master is fuller sounding and the transients are smoothed out.  The reverb also adds a pleasing effect.

Note that I applied ReplayGain processing to both the mix and master.

This song appears on Violette's album, Innervoice, which can be found on CDBaby and iTunes.


[attachment=5412:StLouisB...0seconds.flac]

[attachment=5413:StLouisB...seconds2.flac]

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #1 –
I had a go at mastering StLouisBluesMIX30seconds.flac myself. Here is my result.


[attachment=5421:stlouis_...in.lossy.flac]

I'm no mastering engineer, and I did it on headphones (HD 280 Pro)

In retrospect, it is a bit thin sounding, but it doesn't have the overbearing compressed bass of the OP's mastered version.

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Iain on
I had a go at mastering StLouisBluesMIX30seconds.flac myself. Here is my result.


[attachment=5421:stlouis_...in.lossy.flac]

I'm no mastering engineer, and I did it on headphones (HD 280 Pro)

In retrospect, it is a bit thin sounding, but it doesn't have the overbearing compressed bass of the OP's mastered version.


I agree with your evaluation of the OPs over-compressed "mastered" version.

His "mixed" version is not IME a good example of an unmastered recording because its peak levels are about -6 and -8 dB, which are simply unecessarily low. Recording loud jazz music so that it peaks near FS is not really mastering, its just recognizing the difference between headroom needs during production versus what end-users probably want.

My own means getting the average loudness up beyond simply normalizing so that the peaks of loud passages are 90% FS ( not 100% for the sake of people with cheap DACs) is to manually envelope those few brief passges (often only a few 10s of milliseconds) where peak levels are high, to briefly attenuate by maybe 3 dB.

So my "mastered" version has its dynamics altered for only a fraction of a second per 30 seconds of recording, but the average level is increased by about  10 dB as compared to the mixdown the OP provided.

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #3 –
I think the point of my post has been misinterpreted somewhat.  I really wanted people to get an idea of what a recording sounds like before and after a mastering job.  I had intended to facilitate the evaluation of the *sounds* of the two versions, without taking into account their relative loudness, ReplayGain setting, peak level, etc.  I was hoping people would evaluate it subjectively, not quantitatively.

I agree that the bass is a little boomy on the mastered version, and I would have preferred a brighter sound overall.  Though I'm not a mastering engineer, I did provide Violette with my own master of the song, which she uses on her myspace page, personal web site, and for demos.  When it came down to putting this track on a full album, she and the mastering engineer took a different approach and were going for a different sound.




 

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #4 –
Quote from: LocrianGroove on
I think the point of my post has been misinterpreted somewhat ... I was hoping people would evaluate it subjectively, not quantitatively.

Well, there's just a large amount of subjective opinions here on HA that thinks dynamic compression is abused.

Quote from: LocrianGroove on
I avoided doing this kind of processing on the mix, to allow the mastering engineer as much freedom as possible to 'color' the mix as he saw fit.

And this is where it fails... (IMO)
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #5 –
Tastefully done. Thanks for sharing.

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #6 –
I think the mastered version has far too much peak limiting too. I'm also surprised that the mastering engineer didn't try to filter out a sibilance that is on the vocal, I find it distracting.

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #7 –
I think the unmastered version sounds best.  More depth and emotion, feels more like I'm listening to the live performance.  If most unmastered music sounds this good I wish you could buy it that way too.

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #8 –
Quote from: LocrianGroove on
I'm providing a song clip in mix form (pre-mastering) and in mastered form.  I think it might help people understand the differences between a mix (as delivered to a mastering engineer) and a mastered version.

The mix is my own work, for the singer, Violette, and the mastered version was handled by a mastering engineer.

In this case, the mastering engineer applied EQ, reverb, and dynamic range compression, which is exactly what I would have liked for him to do.  I avoided doing this kind of processing on the mix, to allow the mastering engineer as much freedom as possible to 'color' the mix as he saw fit.  In my opinion, he did a good job.  The resulting master is fuller sounding and the transients are smoothed out.  The reverb also adds a pleasing effect.

Note that I applied ReplayGain processing to both the mix and master.

This song appears on Violette's album, Innervoice, which can be found on CDBaby and iTunes.


[attachment=5412:StLouisB...0seconds.flac]

[attachment=5413:StLouisB...seconds2.flac]

The mastered version has a distorted hi-hat around 00:03 which the nonmastered doesn't have. I wonder if it's the brickwall limiters fault (or mastering engineers).l Regards

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #9 –
Using Audacity I also tried a mastering of my own (always wanted to try that ). I also tried using the effects mentioned by the OP: EQ, reverb and dynamic range compression, so I ended up with this (for now, gotta go to bed):

[attachment=5429:StLouisB...hl_16bit.flac]

This was fun, even though Audacity might not be the best tool for this, I'm quite fond of the mastering, though I'm not really happy with the blowers.

EDIT: This one is nicer, I thought the first one had kind of a garbled sound:

[attachment=5430:StLouisB..._16bit_2.flac]
It's only audiophile if it's inconvenient.

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #10 –
Nice recording.

That mastering is terrible. Sorry.

Not because of heavy EQ and DRC - I think there's a place for putting very heavy DRC and EQ on, say, a CD single (do people still make those?  ) release of a jazz track, as long as the "pure" version is available on the album. But in this case, even if this was the "loud" CD single, it's really badly done, because it's so distorted and the DRC pumping is clearly audible.

As for that "mastered" version being the only one that's commercially available - that's criminal.

It's also stupid. Drop those pure clean mixes straight onto a CD, and you'd probably have an audiophile market ready and waiting. I think I'd buy it.

(Shame the audio quality on the facebook version sucks)

Quote
This song appears on Violette's album, Innervoice, which can be found on CDBaby and iTunes.
It's on Spotify too! Sounds mostly acceptable, but you can hear the DRC squashing stuff where it simple shouldn't - check out the sibilance bouncing the entire track volume near the middle of "Oh! Lady be Good". Great for free - would be upset if I'd paid for it.

It's a nice album musically though. Any chance they'll do another (non) mastering?

Cheers,
David.

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #11 –
I fully agree with 2Bdecided. I hold no high opinion of so called Masteting Engineers (actually I think that they are alien parasites who are playing out a vicious plan to seize the earth by dulling humanity with overcompressed music).

I think in most cases the producer would have a better understanding of the music and it's appropriate dynamics and thus could make a better master. If only the industry would let him do...

Hey, what do Mastering Engineers, Bank Managers and Patent Lawyers all have in common? They all get well paid for messing things up

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #12 –
Just for fun I tried to create a "Vlado Meller Edition" of the song, so, here it is:

[attachment=5433:StLouisB...kohl_VME.flac]

notice the subtle but poignant use of clipping for added emphasis throughout.
It's only audiophile if it's inconvenient.

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Northpack on
I hold no high opinion of so called Masteting Engineers ... I think that they are alien parasites who are playing out a vicious plan ...
Come on, don't sugar coat it - tell us what you really think.

Cheers,
David.

Example of Mix versus Master

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Kohlrabi on
Just for fun I tried to create a "Vlado Meller Edition" of the song...
Don't give them ideas!

Slightly serious point: if you could take a typical modern CD back in time 20+ years, and play it to someone in 1985 who hadn't got accustomed, little by little, to loudness wars style compression, distortion, and clipping - then a modern CD would probably sound a bit like that to them.

Mind you, if you took a typical 1960s pop recording and played it to someone in the 1940s, they'd probably think it sounded pretty bad too.

Cheers,
David.