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Topic: Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip (Read 8016 times) previous topic - next topic
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Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

A couple of days ago I bought the mp3 album, Slumdog Millionaire: Music from the Motion Picture, from Amazon. I was annoyed that a number of the tracks have audible clicks/pops, the sound of a scratched cd being ripped without a secure-ripping program. For example, at 2:29 in track 7, Liquid Dance.

The clicks/pops aren't super-noticeable because much of the soundtrack is frenetic techno-ish stuff, but they're there, and I checked the mp3's for bad frames with a couple of different programs: no bad frames.

When I first emailed Amazon's customer service through their website (two separate emails, each after I noticed skips and pops in a specific track), I did not hear back.
I emailed them again this morning, noting that I've heard skips/pops in a number of tracks. This time I heard back shortly. They asked me to re-download the tracks (set them as re-downloadable in my media library) and check for skips and pops again, to make sure that audio data was not corrupted in the download process.
So I downloaded the album again. Still skips/pops, in the same places. (And the sound from a bad rip on a cd is pretty distinctive, so I wasn't expecting the new download to be clean).

Amazon's rip quality has been good in everything else I've downloaded, which seems to be the experience of most other users as well. Still, having trustworthy clean rips is important to people, and after getting one album that has skips and pops, I'll probably be more hesitant to download from Amazon next time.

I haven't yet heard back from customer service in reply to my reply, but I asked them for a refund or to send me the audio cd free of charge. I think that is fair.
I also strongly advised them to re-rip the cd, and use a secure ripping program.
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #1 –
Quote
I also strongly advised them to re-rip the cd, and use a secure ripping program.


Yeah like that's ever going to happen...  .  You think they would do some research first on what "secure ripping" is and why it doesn't just pertain to audiophiles or people in the audio community. 

Quote
I haven't yet heard back from customer service in reply to my reply, but I asked them for a refund or to send me the audio cd free of charge. I think that is fair.


Normally I would say "forget" the download service and advise you in the future to rip and encode material from the CD yourself. You can't beat lossless rips anyway. 
budding I.T professional

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #2 –
Quote from: HotshotGG on
Quote
I also strongly advised them to re-rip the cd, and use a secure ripping program.


Yeah like that's ever going to happen...  .  You think they would do some research first on what "secure ripping" is and why it doesn't just pertain to audiophiles or people in the audio community. 

Well, give Amazon a little credit. They wouldn't have used Lame V0 unless they wanted to draw in some audiophiles. (Admittedly, they're hit-and-miss here, as they sometimes use 256 Fgh CBR, and apparently now have totally switched over to Lame 256 ABR).
I'm guessing that Amazon did a fair bit of research before setting up their mp3 download system (as a smart company, they should, as they've dedicated huge resources to the service). They probably set somewhat flexible parameters on how to encode, for the sake of convenience, but mainly stick with Lame.
Some major download stores just get lossless from the record label and then encode themselves, so the rip here may be the record label's issue (though it therefore immediately becomes Amazon's problem, if that is the case.)
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #3 –
Just received this reply from Amazon.com customer service:

Quote
Thanks for writing about the problem you had recently playing "Slumdog Millionaire - Music From The Motion Picture" purchased from the Amazon MP3 Music Store. I've tested the file myself, and it appears that there is a problem with that file. I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused.

To help remedy the problem, I've issued a full refund for "Slumdog Millionaire - Music From The Motion Picture" in the amount of $8.99. The refund will be applied to the payment method used for the original purchase and should be completed within the next 2 to 3 business days.

Because there is a problem with this file, I've also alerted our technicians of the problem so it can be corrected as soon as possible. If you are still interested in purchasing a working copy of this song, you may wish to visit the Amazon MP3 Store again in a few days and see if a corrected version is available.
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #4 –
This actually isn't new when it comes to download services.  I had an issue with the iTunes Store back when they initially started offering iTunes Plus downloads.  I purchased the album "Beautiful Tragedy" by In This Moment.  The album is only 11 songs long and 7 of them had audible flaws.  I think it was more of an encoder error as I could hear static, bleeps, bloops, and there would be short periods of silence.  I contacted Apple and they let me download the album again just in case the download process was the issue.  I had to contact them again as the new download was experiencing the exact same problem.  Apple then gave me a refund and said they would fix the tracks.  The refund went through in 1 business day.  Then, about 3 business days later, I see that iTunes was downloading the 11 tracks again but this time I wasn't being charged.  The new tracks didn't have any issues and I wasn't charged when I downloaded them again.  I had a similar issue with the movie The Ten Commandments where the audio was not working, they gave me a refund, and I downloaded it again for free.

My only complaint about the Amazon mp3 store (which is what I use now since it is normally about $1-$5 cheaper when purchasing albums than the DRM-free iTunes Store) is that they don't stick to one standard.  I can download a track today and it will be encoded with FhG at 256kbps CBR stereo.  I can then download other tracks/albums and they will be at either -V 0 using Lame 3.97 or abr256 with Lame 3.98.2.  I really wish that they would stick to one encoder (preferably Lame) and one setting (I don't care which standard).  The OCD part of me wants to have purchases be a single format/setting.

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #5 –
I figure that with mass-production of audio rips for downloads, there are going to be some errors. The goals of corporations like Apple and Amazon should be to minimize these errors, and be responsible to issue refunds and quickly correct the files when they learn about errors.

I too find it annoying that Amazon has inconsistent ripping standards. Especially using stereo CBR instead of joint-stereo Lame. And why the switch to Lame ABR when they moved to 3.98.2? I highly doubt there are meaningful differences in transparency at this bitrate, but it still is annoying.
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #6 –
I'm impressed that Amazon did an investigation and is trying to solve the problem.  It would have been easy for them to give you a refund and drop the matter.

Quote
...you may wish to visit the Amazon MP3 Store again in a few days and see if a corrected version is available.
  I wonder how you'll know if it's been "corrected"???

I've actually run-across a couple of bad new CDs!  EAC didn't report any errors, but both the CD and the ripped file had audible "digital" defects.  I bought one 2-CD set, and one track was completely missing from each CD!!!  (I returned it for a refund).  This was just poor quality control from some 3rd-rate labels.  (These were re-release compilations.)

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #7 –
Does amazon rip the songs themselves?  If they come in so many different configurations, it makes me think that they may be sent by the labels/artists...

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #8 –
You might find that Amazon and iTunes do not rip themselves and they source their ripped audio from multiple sources, depending on label, etc.

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #9 –
From what I remember correctly, Apple sends out software to the music labels/artists.  They then load up the lossless masters in this software and they had three encoding options: 128kbps, 256kbps, and Apple Lossless.  The 128kbps option is probably removed from the software now.  The record company/artists would then send Apple, electronically, the 256kbps or ALAC files.  Apple would then transcode the ALAC files down to 256kbps for the iTunes Plus option and then 128kbps for the standard DRM option.

Now I would think that Apple is only working with either ALAC or 256kbps files.  Either way Apple isn't ripping the CDs, they are relying on the artists/music labels/record companies to make the content and send it over.  Apple is in charge of making the correct content if they have the ALAC files though.  I am not sure how Amazon works but I imagine that they have their own software that works similarly to Apple's.

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #10 –
I've never gotten a bad download from amazon, I download from there all the time, and 99% of the time I get lame v0, I only ever got one cbr album.

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #11 –
Really?  I get -V 0 about 30% of the time, abr 256 30% of the time, and CBR (with either FhG or Lame 3.91) the remainder of the time.  I would stick with Amazon's mp3 store if they used wither -V 0 or abr 256, just one standard.  These multiple lossy files push me to the iTunes Store where I know I will be getting 256kbps AAC all the time (unless the music hasn't bee upgraded to iTunes Plus yet, then I just stay away from it).  I don't mind having a library of AAC and mp3 files.  However, I want all of my AAC files to be encoded at the same setting and all of my mp3 files to be encoded at one setting.  I know it is OCD of me but I don't care.  That and Amazon forces stereo encoding on both FhG and Lame 3.91 when encoding at 256kbps CBR.  I would much prefer that they stick with -V 0 though.  Not that I need such a high bitrate setting but I feel like I would be getting more out of my dollar by doing so.

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #12 –
Lame 3.91? Nearly all my amazon purchases are Lame 3.97 v0 with joint stereo, here is an example, Bruce Dickinson's "Balls to Picasso"

Tags showing the track is from amazon: http://i44.tinypic.com/2uzp5c8.png

Properties in foobar: http://i43.tinypic.com/vr7vnp.png

I ALWAYS get this or once or twice I got a 256 fhg cbr. Never seen any lame on amazon that wasn't v0.

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #13 –
I run into Lame 3.91 CBR 256kbps and Lame 3.98.2 abr 256kbps songs all the time.  Papa Roach's "Hollywood W**re" is encoded at 256kbps using FhG.  Amazon also has a free song up today by a band called Thursday.  I have never heard of them but I won't turn away free music.  It is encoded at stereo 256kbps CBR with Lame 3.91.  You can go download the song for free.  The name of the song is called "Resurrection Of A Dead Man (feat. Tim McIlrath)" and it is available for a free download.  I also downloaded the first single off of Disturbed's album, it is called "Perfect Insanity."  I downloaded this single last year about 2 months before the album is released and it too is encoded at 256kbps CBR stereo with Lame 3.91.

You are lucky that you are coming across -V 0 files.  I am not saying that the 256kbps ABR/CBR files sound bad, it is just that I feel that I would get the most out of my money by getting -V 0 files.  So far I have come across only four albums that were at -V 0: Otep - The Ascension, Various Artists - Best Of Nuclear Blast, Lacuna Coil - Our Truth EP, and Various Artists - Tooth & Nail Records Sampler.  All other songs/albums I have purchased are encoded at 256kbps CBR.  It just bugs me that Amazon isn't sticking to a standard especially since I started using their store back in 2007 and the first song I downloaded was encoded at -V 0 with Lame 3.97 (the song is called "Without A Reason" by Lacuna Coil).

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #14 –
I just ran across my first Lame 3.91 CBR 256 - on a 2008 album by Michael Franti. Kinda ridiculous - Lame 3.91 was out like what, 7 years ago?

Amazon clearly has some "normal" standards (Fgh 256, Lame 3.91 256, Lame 3.97 V0, Lame 3.98 abr 256) and I wonder what is behind this. Is there any rationale?
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #15 –
I e-mailed Amazon asking them why they just don't offer one standard of encoding as I would switch to completely using the Amazon mp3 store over the iTunes Store (I just never know when I am going to get a 256kbps CBR 3.91/FhG file).  Unfortunately the person responded by back giving the standard Amazon answer (which I already knew):

"Where possible, we encode our MP3 files using variable bit rates for maximum audio quality and smaller file sizes, aiming at an average of 256 kilobits per second (kbps). Using a variable bit rate allows us to allocate a higher bit rate to the more complex sections of music files while using a smaller bit rate for the less complex sections. The average of these rates is then calculated to produce an average bit rate for the entire file that represents the overall sound quality. Some of our content is encoded using a constant bit rate of 256 kbps. This content will have the same excellent audio quality at a slightly larger file size."

I already knew this and it does not explain why Amazon offers Lame 3.98, 3.98.2, 3.91, and FhG mp3 files.  I want to know why, not what Amazon tries to do.  I don't think they will ever give us an answer.  Until then, I will use the iTunes Store (only for DRM-free content) as I know that all the tracks I download will be at 256kbps with the iTunes AAC encoder.

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #16 –
Well that is odd, only lame I ever saw amazon use is 3.97 I've never seen 3.98 either only 3.97. I must get lucky with my music.

Amazon mp3 album with skips/pops from scratched CD rip

Reply #17 –
I purchased an album a few days ago (Luna Mortis - The Absence) and it was encoded at -V 0 with Lame 3.97.  However, I purchased the new Powerman 5000 single and it is encoded at 256kbps CBR with Lame 3.91.

I sent Amazon an e-mail again asking why they use different standards for encoding mp3 files.  I received the standard reply that I have already posted.  I simply responded "why?"  We will see what Amazon sends me back.  I would devote my money to their service if they would just stick with one setting (preferably -V 0).

Edit:  I forgot to mention that I have come across an encoding error on the Luna Mortis album I purchased.  The second song (called Ruin) has some type of encoding error at the 2:49 mark.  I e-mailed Amazon this past Friday but they haven't replied.  My guess is that their customer service department was closed and will remain closed until Tuesday (many places have today, President's Day, off).