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Topic: Won't get fooled again? (Read 12354 times) previous topic - next topic
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Won't get fooled again?

So I'm riding in the car listening to my USB 320kbps AAC rip'd "Who's Next" album, "Won't Get Fooled Again" track, volume is reasonably high, it gets to Daltrey's last primal scream, and I can hear a bit of static.  Of course as soon as I get home I pop in the CD - exact same thing - little pops of static  during the scream.  Now my question is - is it on the CD, or is it distortion in my car audio receiver or speakers?  Everything else sounds pretty clean til now...

Would appreciate a second opinion  Thanks!

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #1 –
Probably just clipping. Replaygain the tracks when converting them to AAC. Your problem might be solved that way.

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #2 –
Do you get eny audio extraction errors when you rip the CD?

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Canar on
Probably just clipping. Replaygain the tracks when converting them to AAC. Your problem might be solved that way.


From Wikipedia "Loudness Wars":

"Several solutions to eliminate the loudness war have been conceived.

Audio volume leveling, prominently Replay Gain, is perhaps the most widely used solution. It should be noted, however, that this can only alter the volume of music so that it is not proportionately louder (or quieter) than the listener's other music. It can change volume or prevent new clipping, but it cannot restore dynamics or undo clipping which is already there."

The static is already there when I play back the CD - so I guess, it won't be eliminated by ripping with Replaygain (right?)

Quote from: uart on
Do you get eny audio extraction errors when you rip the CD?


No - the ripping (from fb2k) says no problems.  The same effect is in the CD playback, so my main question is if the main source of the distortion/clipping is the CD itself or my audio components.  (If that makes sense...)

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #4 –
I think it would be the CD itself, either a bad scratch on your copy or bad mastering. If you know someone else with the same CD (same pressing/mastering) you might be able to determine which it is.

I missed the part where you said it ripped without errors, so it's likely in the mastering and not a scratch on your CD.

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #5 –
I just did a quick listen to my rip of that and I think the distortion you are referring to is on the original recording.
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #6 –
Which master do you have?

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #7 –
It's most definitely part of the recording itself. Works well as a deliberate ('artistic') effect at the song's climax, i.e. right after the long instrumental break, showing that Daltrey the screaming he-man can overpower a tape machine, if only for a moment.

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: euphonic on
It's most definitely part of the recording itself. Works well as a deliberate ('artistic') effect at the song's climax, i.e. right after the long instrumental break, showing that Daltrey the screaming he-man can overpower a tape machine, if only for a moment.


Thanks folks!  Good to know it's part of the recording not my audio components.

The version I've got is, I believe, the "original recording remastered" - a relatively recent CD, I bought it a couple years ago from BMG.  Don't have the jewel case in front of me but the disc is a circular blue and black design.

Anyway - thanks for the second opinions

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #9 –
Hmm ... I can't hear the distortion you refer to. I've replayed it three times and can't hear it. Hardware: iMac 3.06 GHz Intel Core Duo w/ 4 GB RAM; Grado RS-1 headphones; Headroom Ultra Micro Amp w/ Astrodyne power supply; Headroom Ultra DAC w/ a separate Astrodyne power supply. Ripped from "The Ultimate Collection" using Apple Lossless encoding. I don't think the CD was a "remastered" version, so maybe the distortion shows up on a remastered version. On the other hand, it may be my 62 yr old ears (sitting 7 rows from the stage at the 1968 Stones concert I'm sure didn't help my hearing ...  )

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: dreamliner77 on
I just did a quick listen to my rip of that and I think the distortion you are referring to is on the original recording.


I agree 100%. During the overload time, the peak amplitude is -3dB FS with no trace of visible clipping but it certainly sounds clipped. It's hardly unique though it is a little worse than other recordings. BTW my version came from the 4 disc set '30 years of maximum R & B'. The other copy I have from the Whos's greatest hits is 2dB lower than the 30 years version. Nearly identical raspy sound.

G²

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #11 –
I have/had the US "West Coast" original Decca LP (-1/-1 stampers) in great condition, and it's apparent on their as well.  If anyone has the original Track Records version (pressed at the same time as the "West Coast", both from the master tape), perhaps they could verify?

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: dodog on
I have/had the US "West Coast" original Decca LP (-1/-1 stampers) in great condition, and it's apparent on their as well.  If anyone has the original Track Records version (pressed at the same time as the "West Coast", both from the master tape), perhaps they could verify?


If I was a bettin' man, I'd say the the mic or mic preamp overloaded ahead of the mix and it was just not worth the bother to fix.

G²
 

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #13 –
I have a rather poor needle drop, and I don't hear anything like popping or static in the scream. I'm a bit surprised, but I only hear something like Daltrey's voice going into overload.

Not very well made transfer of an early Australian pressing.

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: dreamliner77 on
I just did a quick listen to my rip of that and I think the distortion you are referring to is on the original recording.


Agreed.  That scream has *always' sounded 'overloaded'

It might be interesting to compare the remixed version (available on one of the 'best ofs' released in the late 90's I think)  -- then at least we might have a clue whether it was the vocal track itself that was a little blown out to being with, or whether that came in during original mixdown/mastering.

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #15 –
I uploaded a 0:12 second sample of a needledrop from my LP.  You can find it here.  In case anyone is interested in hearing what the OP is talking about, it's very audible on this sample.

I've never used the upload system so if I did this incorrectly, please be nice and I'll promise to do it right the next time (if there are issues, someone can PM me with the correct instructions).  I agree with "Krabapple" though, the remixed sample might be nice.

Won't get fooled again?

Reply #16 –
What I hear in dodog's sample I also hear in my poor needledrop of an Australian pressing. If that is what OP hears, then Do Not Adjust Your Set, that is a Valid Artistic Choice.