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Topic: (FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS. (Read 10877 times) previous topic - next topic
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(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

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(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #1 –
Go for it Bourne. Why not go for all popular open source codec support though? OSA (Open Source Audio) compliant. Plays Flac, Wavpack, Vorbis, Musepack and Lame mp3. Push for replaygain too. Then I would sign.

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #3 –
Quote from: greynol on
Include TAK and I'll gladly sign such a petition.

Kind of hard for interested third parties to do much with it as long as it remains closed source - with only Windows binaries in the wild.
Creature of habit.

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #4 –
throwing a bunch of codecs into one petition is just going to get it ignored.  if it's going to have any chance at all, keep it to one codec per petition.

sony is actually not that much of a long shot.  their production tools (sound forge, vegas, etc) support flac now.  pioneer, denon also make receivers with flac support so it's proven in big name consumer electronics.

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #5 –
Josh and Soap, you guys are right.

Even a separate request for TAK would probably be premature at this point.

EDIT: Let me be clear that I'm opposed to the petition for flac.  I'm actually all for it.  It's a petition that has a variety of formats without TAK that I would not be interested in signing.

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #6 –
speaking of which, it was awesome to see flac read/write on vegas pro, they're going to be doing it for the next release of acid pro no doubt

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #7 –
Flac would be wonderful for billions of reasons. Forget about other codecs, if you throw a bunch of them in it will weaken the petition.

But honestly, unless I can see a past successful example that was asking for support for a specific feature in a physical device that clearly wasn't in the manufacturer's interests already, I doubt it would have much hope. Yeah, gapless was eventually added for iPod, but they were going to add it anyway (I think), and they certainly didn't add it to the previous gen iPods.

But FLAC is the open-source codec with the greatest chance so WHY NOT! I bet companies like Dolby wouldn't like it though. Especially for lossless, FLAC competes directly with their TrueHD/MLP codecs. They don't want to see FLAC DVDs anytime soon.

Don't mean to sound so cynical, but Think from Sony's POV - will it sell more DVD players as a result? Asking for a CD release that all these people are likely to buy is a very different picture.

I will sign this, but only if FLAC is the only codec asked for.

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #8 –
i agree that asking for flac support on dvds isnt what is probably the most important thing to do, how about asking them to support flac in their digital audio players? last time i checked they didnt, has that changed?

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #9 –
Quote from: CoyoteSmith on
i agree that asking for flac support on dvds isnt what is probably the most important thing to do, how about asking them to support flac in their digital audio players? last time i checked they didnt, has that changed?

On the contrary, support on standalone devices such as DVD players makes more sense than portable devices: on the latter, lossy codecs make much more sense, while it's reasonable to expect some people to archive their lossless rips on DVD-Rs. In that case, being able to just stick their DVD-R into the DVD player would be convenient. But all in all, like I said in another thread, I believe the benefits from hardware support are rather limited when it comes to lossless audio.

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #10 –
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(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #11 –
MP3 support was added because it was hugely popular; it got popular because there was no real competition against it. Lossless encoding, all codecs combined, is much less popular than MP3, and the industry has already chosen to engage into a format war involving SACD and DVD-Audio. They've also chosen Dolby True-HD and its competitor DTS-HD Master Audio (although mainly for movie soundtracks rather than music). So, they're already pushing for their own licenses, while they're presently focusing away from CD-DA onto online music, which is already dominated by Apple and Microsoft. I doubt a petition will lead FLAC or any other free lossless codec anywhere.

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #12 –
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(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #13 –
First, Sony and Philips aren't exactly the nice, smallish tech companies that you can just e-mail and expect a refreshing answer from. Second, format wars are about big bucks. Just look at the SACD vs. DVD-Audio war, the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray war: it was all about which studio supported which format, who was prepared to make the juiciest deals, etc... Free Software does not fit in that market, not as it is now, unless it's really popular; even FLAC hasn't reached that point. Informal polls in P2P communities, to which several thousands of people participated each time, have consistently showed a popularity of about 15%, if memory serves me well. I don't believe that's nearly enough for any major player to be interested.

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #14 –
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(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Bourne on
I am all for all codecs, but you must understand that if we include all codecs it will be a "ridiculous" petition and it will weaken. It will give the feeling that we have different opinions and that we don't really know what we want. Fortunately for ones, and unfortunately for non-FLAC enthusiasts, it's gotta be FLAC seriously... Even if I didn't like FLAC, it would be it because it is just what is the popular and ubiquitous. I know you guys like other formats, I also like TAK infact I have albums in TAK. But the sensible choice is FLAC because of what it is. Frenchglen mentioned the TrueHD/MLP audio and Dolby issues and they are 100% valid and reasonable.

<snip>

I see no reason for us to push for APE, TAK, WV, TTA, OptiFrog, SHN... because of the reasons laid out.
If we are going to have people that is saying that won't sign because "they like WV better", then I don't think we can't go that far... if there was a APE petition... you better believe I WOULD SIGN IT... if there was a TAK petition, I would sign it too... but you guys need to understand that the corporate market doesn't work like that and that is why MP3 reigns over OGG/MPC/AAC (it's not our fault).


I agree that presenting a laundry list of 10 odd lossless codecs would have a bad impression, but why does it "seriously" have to be FLAC? You say that "the sensible choice is flac because of what it is." What exactly do you mean when you say that?

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #16 –
I can understand your point but I think if Sony brings FLAC support to any of their hardware it will be with the PS3 first given that the PS3 already supports WAV, WMA, mpeg-4 AAC, mp3, and ATRAC3 (I don't know why they threw this one in).  The PS3 is their more powerful product (besides their computer lines) so it is probably easier to release it first for their console.  It also has a built-in hard drive with at least 20GB of storage so that is another plus for that system.

Since that hasn't happened then I doubt it will happen with their home theater products either.  There have been a couple of petitions to get FLAC support on the PS3 as well.  Nothing has come up yet.

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #17 –
Throw in one vote from me!

So far I'm juggling between:
- Audio-DVD (as LPCM for *lossless* or AC3 for lossy) using Goland Tech Audio DVD Creator
- MP3 DVD at --preset insane

This is due to the fact the my latest Sony DVD home theatre (DAV-DZ150K) only plays MP3 (no WAV or FLAC yet) aside from the usual disc stuffs.

FLAC is most welcome!
"Listen to me...
Never take unsolicited advice..."

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #18 –
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(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #19 –
I wouldn't pursue APE because it is CPU-intensive, but licensing would probably not be a problem...
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=545782
http://www.monkeysaudio.com/license.html
 

(FLAC) Petition to SONY and PHILIPS.

Reply #20 –
Of course we start with FLAC petition.

It's only a question, wo writes texts, etc.
Just feel free to start off ! 
Maybe text draws can be done here.

There is a market for FLAC/Lossless devices, not exactly portables,
but with today's prices for storage space, even that works, see Kenwood/Volvo car systems.

if i read/visit Audiophile forums/websites, they know flac/Lossless already. And those guys spend money on new (DVD/CD) players, or amps/receivers which can decode flac, connected via toslink/digital to silent PC, or via home-network etc.

it is all there, only very tiny links are missing,
and indeed, if Sony/Philips don#t go now the FLAC way, Samsung, LG, Toshiba etc. etc. will be first, and it would be good also.

Offering Lossless/FLAC decoding is a feature not only for audiophiles.