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Topic: Burned CD making clicking sounds in the receiver (Read 9216 times) previous topic - next topic
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Burned CD making clicking sounds in the receiver

Hello..

        I recently purchased an Onkyo CS-v720S shelf-stereo....and I noticed that when playing burned CDs (from a variety of computers, using a variety of brands, on a vareity of burning software), the receiver would make small "click click click" sounds while playing the CD. The actual sound quality from the speakers are not affected.

        I later used a stamped CD (regular CD, not burned) and this was not a problem. What could be causing this small "click click click" sound when reading the burned CDs? The unit says it would play CD-Rs...please help! I hope i'm not hurting this machine...


                                                                    -Wiener Philharmoniker

Burned CD making clicking sounds in the receiver

Reply #1 –
Highly unlikely that this would cause any kind of damage.

First question - is the sound coming through the speakers or is it coming from the mechanism?

Second question - are the clicks random or do they occur at regular intervals, and if at regular intervals does the interval change gradually as you play the CD? Are they equal amplitude or random?

Burned CD making clicking sounds in the receiver

Reply #2 –
Quote from: pdq on
Highly unlikely that this would cause any kind of damage.

First question - is the sound coming through the speakers or is it coming from the mechanism?

Second question - are the clicks random or do they occur at regular intervals, and if at regular intervals does the interval change gradually as you play the CD? Are they equal amplitude or random?


Hi pdg,

            1. The sound is coming through the mechanism when reading the CD...if you take the CD out (but leave the machine on or use a stamped CD ) the sound is gone.

            2. the clicks occur at regular intervals, it does not change, they are at equal amplitude.

Anyone else out there with some kind of knowledge PLEASE help! This is driving me nuts! Thanks!!

                                                                        -Wiener Philharmoniker

Burned CD making clicking sounds in the receiver

Reply #3 –
It sounds as though your player is having difficulty tracking a CDR. It keeps drifting off track and then jumping back. This could be a faulty mechanism, or even a faulty design. The fact that it does not correlate to the recorder or brand of blank CD or burning software doesn't sound very hopeful. I would check with the manufacturer.

Burned CD making clicking sounds in the receiver

Reply #4 –
Quote from: ViennaPhilharmonic on
Anyone else out there with some kind of knowledge PLEASE help! This is driving me nuts! Thanks!!

PDQ is probably correct - it sounds like one of two problems:
1) the side tracking lasers are losing the track reference, and/or the tracking mechanism in your particular unit is just out of tolerance. Most likely, it's the burning.

Many (nearly all!) non-commercial CDs, whether CDR or CDRW, get burned at far too high a speed by nearly everyone. (Hey, it's digital, right? Doesn't make any difference!  )

When the CDs are burned too fast, the track burning isn't "clean", and the tracking information (edge detection) isn't sharp enough to keep the tracking lasers "on track".

This is a real problem with most u-beaut el cheapo CD burners (no names, but any burner costing less than US$25 is likely to have this problem), where the laser is usually underpowered and the CD isn't held in the correct focal position. So the track is shallow, narrow, and blurred, if you like. Some manufacturers use massively overpowered lasers to compensate, but most burning software doesn't calibrate the laser, so the CDs produced tend to have really wide, deep, splattered tracks, which results in a similar problem.

A computer has the ability to spend a lot of time recalibrating and tracking, so it's usually not a problem reading/playing these disks in a computer drive, but in a commercial player, there isn't a lot they can do except recalibrate and retry.

It sounds a lot like your player uses a "hard reference" to recalibrate the head. This usually isn't a cause for concern, but like every mechanical repetitive action, prolonged behaviour will tend to reduce the lifetime of the mechanism. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it, but if you're concerned, try asking the manufacturer about it. (Ignore their first answer, which will be "no such thing, there's no problem, it won't hurt it").

The easiest way around this, if you have a reasonably good quality CD burner (NOT DVD/CD combo, just CD), is to make copies of each of the burned CDs, and re-master them at the slowest speed your hardware will allow. 1x is best, but most software won't let you burn slower than 4x, so try that.

It's a real pain, but after many dozens of customer complaints early on, we found that 1x burning solved every single read problem experienced.

But try it on one disk first, just to be sure.

or 2) The TOC (table of contents) data isn't correct, and the CD firmware is getting confused if the track length is longer than stated in the TOC.

That's really unusual, but it does happen occasionally with audio CDs burned by programs that are designed to read and burn "protected" (game) CDs/DVDs - they mimic what they see on the source disk, and they can over-run the track end due to CD drive speed variations and PC timer resolution.

Sorry if this is too much information. Let me know if the reburning helps.
Good luck!
64 characters as a sig? Hmm, let's see... Oh, I know. THis is m

Burned CD making clicking sounds in the receiver

Reply #5 –
Quote from: PC Pete on
Quote from: ViennaPhilharmonic on

Anyone else out there with some kind of knowledge PLEASE help! This is driving me nuts! Thanks!!

PDQ is probably correct - it sounds like one of two problems:
1) the side tracking lasers are losing the track reference, and/or the tracking mechanism in your particular unit is just out of tolerance. Most likely, it's the burning.

Many (nearly all!) non-commercial CDs, whether CDR or CDRW, get burned at far too high a speed by nearly everyone. (Hey, it's digital, right? Doesn't make any difference!  )

When the CDs are burned too fast, the track burning isn't "clean", and the tracking information (edge detection) isn't sharp enough to keep the tracking lasers "on track".

This is a real problem with most u-beaut el cheapo CD burners (no names, but any burner costing less than US$25 is likely to have this problem), where the laser is usually underpowered and the CD isn't held in the correct focal position. So the track is shallow, narrow, and blurred, if you like. Some manufacturers use massively overpowered lasers to compensate, but most burning software doesn't calibrate the laser, so the CDs produced tend to have really wide, deep, splattered tracks, which results in a similar problem.

A computer has the ability to spend a lot of time recalibrating and tracking, so it's usually not a problem reading/playing these disks in a computer drive, but in a commercial player, there isn't a lot they can do except recalibrate and retry.

It sounds a lot like your player uses a "hard reference" to recalibrate the head. This usually isn't a cause for concern, but like every mechanical repetitive action, prolonged behaviour will tend to reduce the lifetime of the mechanism. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it, but if you're concerned, try asking the manufacturer about it. (Ignore their first answer, which will be "no such thing, there's no problem, it won't hurt it").

The easiest way around this, if you have a reasonably good quality CD burner (NOT DVD/CD combo, just CD), is to make copies of each of the burned CDs, and re-master them at the slowest speed your hardware will allow. 1x is best, but most software won't let you burn slower than 4x, so try that.

It's a real pain, but after many dozens of customer complaints early on, we found that 1x burning solved every single read problem experienced.

But try it on one disk first, just to be sure.

or 2) The TOC (table of contents) data isn't correct, and the CD firmware is getting confused if the track length is longer than stated in the TOC.

That's really unusual, but it does happen occasionally with audio CDs burned by programs that are designed to read and burn "protected" (game) CDs/DVDs - they mimic what they see on the source disk, and they can over-run the track end due to CD drive speed variations and PC timer resolution.

Sorry if this is too much information. Let me know if the reburning helps.
Good luck!



Wow, PCpete, i have to really thank you for this informative response!

Well, for the 1st part, I did burn my blank CDs at a slow speed at 8X to 32X, and the results is the same, the clicking sound occurs constantly at 3 times/2seconds.

One thing I would like to mention is that, the sound quality is perfectly good, just the CD receiver goes click click click, and its very annoying when listening to quiet/soft music, otherwise music at normal volume drowns it out.

The most important part I want to say is that, when I test these burned CDs to another CD player/boom box, there is NO SUCH PROBLEM!

So, PCpete and PDG, do you think I should still play burned CDs? Will it really significantly shorten my mini-system's life span? Thanks for all your help!

Burned CD making clicking sounds in the receiver

Reply #6 –
Quote from: ViennaPhilharmonic on
Well, for the 1st part, I did burn my blank CDs at a slow speed at 8X to 32X, and the results is the same, the clicking sound occurs constantly at 3 times/2seconds.

You will still find that even 8x might be a bit "quick", but if you get the same effect (same or similar click frequency/repetition rate) on 8x cds and 32x cds, then see the next point...
Quote from: ViennaPhilharmonic on
So, PCpete and PDG, do you think I should still play burned CDs? Will it really significantly shorten my mini-system's life span? Thanks for all your help!

I don't think it will damage the player in the short term, but it sounds like it will be worth contacting the vendor and/or the Onkyo website (if they have one?) to see if a) this is a known problem (in which case, turn up the volume and try to ignore the clicking), or b) this is specific to your unit, in which case you probably should return it for an exchange.

Either way, you might want to take a couple of the CDs with you when you go to the store,and see if another unit does the same thing.
64 characters as a sig? Hmm, let's see... Oh, I know. THis is m

Burned CD making clicking sounds in the receiver

Reply #7 –
Quote from: PC Pete on
Many (nearly all!) non-commercial CDs, whether CDR or CDRW, get burned at far too high a speed by nearly everyone. (Hey, it's digital, right? Doesn't make any difference!  )
When the CDs are burned too fast, the track burning isn't "clean", and the tracking information (edge detection) isn't sharp enough to keep the tracking lasers "on track".


I am not really sure if this is really the problem. Regular noises from drive, with different burned discs, can only mean that drive doesn't support reading CDRs, because their reflectivity index is much lower than of the pressed discs - but it is trying really hard, clicking noises could be refocusing laser lens forward the disc.

Ivan.
TAPE LOADING ERROR

Burned CD making clicking sounds in the receiver

Reply #8 –
Quote from: hlloyge on
I am not really sure if this is really the problem. Regular noises from drive, with different burned discs, can only mean that drive doesn't support reading CDRs, because their reflectivity index is much lower than of the pressed discs - but it is trying really hard, clicking noises could be refocusing laser lens forward the disc.
Ivan.

I hadn't even thought of that, Ivan. That's actually a good point - especially for CDRW, where the dye layer is even less reflective.

We've consistently used a particular CDR premium disk brand that has had a really consistent recording surface all along, and all the problems we struck were solved simply by burning slower, using the same disks. The engineer that got involved explained that most of the reason was the poor pitting performance of lasers at "high speed", but he didn't go any further. Mind you, now that manufacturer is cutting costs by thinning the disk backing, which is causing problems all over the place - but again, not clicking problems.

We didn't actually have any customers complaining of the clicking sound, though, so it could be completely unrelated. And yes, if the laser plane is focusable, that would explain the clicking sounds too. I still think it's useful to find out if it's an issue with the unit in question, or whether it's a manufacturer-specific (or model-specific) problem...
64 characters as a sig? Hmm, let's see... Oh, I know. THis is m