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Topic: help, PCI soundcard, near bitperfect, optical out (Read 14553 times) previous topic - next topic
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help, PCI soundcard, near bitperfect, optical out

Reply #25 –
Quote
Both S/PDIF coax and Toslink have definite cable length limitations. I don't recall the specifics because I've never had a need for more than 10 feet. 50 feet might be pushing, or even exceeding, the limit without some kind of repeater hardware in between. I would recommend checking those requirements before planning too much.

I know you can get over 50 foot optical and the only reason i would believe 50 foot coax would be scarce is because it needs to be shielded making 50' fairly expensive

im thinking of either
soundcard>optical out>reciever(Yamaha RX-V2200 below)>optical out>DAC>headphone AMP
-OR-
soundcard>optical out>DAC>Analog out>Reciever
                                        >Headphone AMP
-OR-
soundcard>optical out>Reciever
              >coax>DAC>AMP And viceversa

help, PCI soundcard, near bitperfect, optical out

Reply #26 –
Check out this product instead:

http://www.wavelengthaudio.com/usbdac.html

Anything that is similar to this that uses USB will be bit perfect and jitter free (since USB can communicate both ways, it checks every transmission it sends to eliminate jitter). Just send the analog output straight to the analog inputs on your stereo-- it should sound great about as perfect as you could imagine (as long as your stereo does not convert it back to digital in teh box for processing or eq purposes, a good analog unit would be ideal).

I think this product is probably great (I don't own one so I can't say for sure, but I'd love to own one to see), but it costs too much money (the reason why I don't own one). I hope something comes out from a more mainstream company that will cost only a few hundred bucks and do the same thing. I don't like custom shop items like this, but I gotta say it seems like this is the way of the future.

help, PCI soundcard, near bitperfect, optical out

Reply #27 –
Creative X-fi has a Bitmatched playback setting!
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P
 

help, PCI soundcard, near bitperfect, optical out

Reply #28 –
Oddy enough so do the Audigy 4 and Audigy 2 Value, but they require an external dongle for optical or coaxial input/output.
Acid8000 aka. PhilDEE

help, PCI soundcard, near bitperfect, optical out

Reply #29 –
Quote from: Gabriel on
Quote from: Canar on

I was wrong, 16-bit is capable of 120dB of SnR, according to some sources.

A 16bit system is able to reach about 96dB of snr, but can reach about 120dB of dynamic range, using a good dithering (this will reduce the snr).


Ah, that's what I meant. Thanks for the correction.

help, PCI soundcard, near bitperfect, optical out

Reply #30 –
Quote from: Canar on
Quote from: Gabriel on

Quote from: Canar on

I was wrong, 16-bit is capable of 120dB of SnR, according to some sources.

A 16bit system is able to reach about 96dB of snr, but can reach about 120dB of dynamic range, using a good dithering (this will reduce the snr).


Ah, that's what I meant. Thanks for the correction.


Now im not correcting you beacuse i dont know enough to argue, but im just WONDERING if the SNR without dithering has to be less than the Dynamic range, i can see how dithering can increase that. because correct me if im wrong an i know i will haha, but the dynamic range of 16 bit audio is 20*log(2^(16-1))=90.3dB the minus one because of the "least significant bit or something" and if you just do strait 20*log(2^16))=96.3dB, or Aprox 6dB for every bit... is that where the 96 comes from or it that a tottaly different calculation?

help, PCI soundcard, near bitperfect, optical out

Reply #31 –
Quote from: Dirge on
I have heard you aren't guaranteed to get bit-perfect output from the Chaintech AV-710 or at least it is alot of work to get there.

I think I am in the same position as you Canadiandude, I am looking for a sound card with a good DAC and unamped line out. Cards I have seen mentioned include

Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 HiFi (not sure if it has an direct line out)
E-MU 0404
E-MU 1212
ESI Juli@

I want to avoid the E-MU cards as I hear they suffer the same Creative driver bloat. I would like to buy a good card that I won’t need to upgrade for some time. Can someone offer any better solutions?

I would say that getting "Bit-Perfect" output from the 710 isn't horribly difficult, but sorting through all the information that has been posted about this can be challenging.  I recently purchased a 710 for this reason, and had it up and running properly in just a few minutes, but then again I had done quite a bit of research beforehand.

Unfortunately the driver situation with the 710 is a little sketchy... the VIA reference drivers are workable, but the included control panel is a complete disaster (its usable, but ugly and very badly written), and you are forced to use earlier driver revisions (previous to the 5.00 series) to retain normal use of the "good" (Wolfson DAC) output.  The are "other" driver solutions, but that involves modifying (flashing) the card... which in turn means you lose all the analog outputs.

At any rate, I also ended up purchasing a Julia@ (for my newest system), which I found to be an exceptional sound card.  The drivers are small, user friendly, and work extremely well; the only major problem is that none of the Julia@'s drivers seem to be WHQL signed (this could be a problem for Vista adopters?). The Julia@ also seems to be fully supported by Linux's ALSA, though I haven't had an opportunity to verify this myself. On a side note, Audiotrak is a division of ESI, who also manufactures the Julia@.

From the actual measurements i've seen, the 1212m seems to be technically superior, but Creative (or even Creative associated) products have left a a bad taste in my mouth over the last few years (or maybe even decade).  After examining the 0404 and the 1212m drivers I knew I wouldn't be happy with either of these cards...

Quote from: master on
Quote from: Dirge on

I want to avoid the E-MU cards as I hear they suffer the same Creative driver bloat. I

No they don't.


So far as I could tell from examining the 1212m's driver package, it utlizies the same unified driver as the Live!/Audigy/X-Fi, which suffer from some serious levels of "bloat".  In addition to the "bloat", Creative's drivers use extremely proprietary installation methods, leaving you with reduced functionality if you attempt to install the device directly from the Device Manager (or through unattended installations).  While the largest majority of users will be unaffected by this, it was really the deal breaker for me when considering any of the EMU cards.

Having been a user of Creative products since approximately 1996, and experiencing their VXD->WDM transition first hand (which left many of us out in the cold for quite some time), their drivers have always been sub-par, regardless of how well the card is actually designed.

-----
Domain

help, PCI soundcard, near bitperfect, optical out

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Domain on
From the actual measurements i've seen, the 1212m seems to be technically superior, but Creative (or even Creative associated) products have left a a bad taste in my mouth over the last few years (or maybe even decade).  After examining the 0404 and the 1212m drivers I knew I wouldn't be happy with either of these cards...

So far as I could tell from examining the 1212m's driver package, it utlizies the same unified driver as the Live!/Audigy/X-Fi, which suffer from some serious levels of "bloat".  In addition to the "bloat", Creative's drivers use extremely proprietary installation methods, leaving you with reduced functionality if you attempt to install the device directly from the Device Manager (or through unattended installations).  While the largest majority of users will be unaffected by this, it was really the deal breaker for me when considering any of the EMU cards.

Having been a user of Creative products since approximately 1996, and experiencing their VXD->WDM transition first hand (which left many of us out in the cold for quite some time), their drivers have always been sub-par, regardless of how well the card is actually designed.

-----
Domain

May I know what/when is the last Creative card you bought?

A few thing you maybe not aware of:
1. You can choose to select to install Driver only for Creative cards now.
2. EMU cards driver is different from Creative. There is additional FPGA on board for EMU.
Break The Rules!!!

help, PCI soundcard, near bitperfect, optical out

Reply #33 –
Quote from: master on
May I know what/when is the last Creative card you bought?

A few thing you maybe not aware of:
1. You can choose to select to install Driver only for Creative cards now.
2. EMU cards driver is different from Creative. There is additional FPGA on board for EMU.

The last card I owned from Creative was an Audigy 4 Pro, though i've also owned an Audigy Platinum eX, Live! (Original), and a variety of other cards dating back to the AWE16/AWE32 line.

Choice of driver only install is irrellevant when the driver itself exceedes nearly 80mb uncompressed (though in all fairness alot of this has to do with soundfonts).  As for the EMU cards driver being different from the other lines, I assume you mean the driver for the EMU 1212m is as follows:

1212m Driver

Being particularly familiar with the layout of the Creative driver over the years, the files included in package are based directly on the same driver one would download for the Live!/Audigy/X-Fi... in fact the Live!/Audigy/X-Fi driver actually contains the numerous identifiers for E-DSP (and vice versa).  Irregardless of whether or not the EMU cards are designed differently, if their driver set is based on Creative's unified architecture, then they will suffer similiar problems much like their consumer counterparts.

But... I could be wrong, I don't have a 1212m here to test with, so perhaps a extremely well designed driver is hiding somewhere in all the rest of the bloat included with that download.