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Topic: Prefered PC hardware (Read 9849 times) previous topic - next topic
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Prefered PC hardware

Hi, forum!

I'm in the process of buying a new computer. I don't particularly care about gaming, however I do intend to use this computer to run all of my music and movies from. TO that end I plan on getting a custom-built system. Right now I'm thinking an nvidia6200 graphics card, a gig of RAM, a 7500 SATA 100-gig hard drive, and a moderate AMD chip. (I do plan on running Vista with this machine, but not for a while, probably not fir nine months at least.) Here's my questions:

1. THe sound card. I don't have a surroudn sound system (...yet) and as previously stated, I'm not a gamer. So as far as Creative goes, I dont' see a reason why I should get anything other than an SB Live 24-bit card. Is there any reason why I should get, say, an Audigy II instead? Or--a better question, is there a company that makes better cards than Creative? i'm guess there are, but I don't know what they are. I am planning on recording, however I intend to buy an Echo Fire4 to handle that--so all this card would be doing is playback. What, in the opinion of htis forum, is the best card for handling audio playback?
2. Burner. I can get a 48X16 CD/DVD burner for 30 bucks on newegg. However, I suspect that if I did this, I would be getting a bad burner. Other than speed, what is there to look for in a CD/DVD burner? While I'll be doing a lot of CD reading, burning, and DVD reading, I don't intend on burning DVDs very often--if at all. Is there ar eason why I should not get a CD/DVD combo burner? What is recommended for this? (It's probably obvious, but i'll mention it anyway--I use EAC to rip CDs. To burn I use Nero7, because I don't know if there is anything better.)
3. Processor. I was originally thinking of getting one of the COnro chips, but in thinking about it I don't really konw if I need it. This question might be a little out of hte scope for this forum, but considering my needs, now that processors have significantly dropped in price what processor would oyu say meets but does not exceed my needs for the machine? I'm not a brand whore, so I'll go with Intel or AMD--I suspect, however, that the pecking order goes something like this: Conro > Athlon > everything else. That said, at what point whould i be throwing good money after bad in the processor market--when woudl i stop noticing a speed increase for the money I am throwing at the processor?

Any assistance on this would be greatly appreciated.

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #1 –
Okay, so I've been looking at this further, and it seems that the Audigy2Z is a significant improvement on SBLive. Now i'm thinking about X-fi, but a lot of people appear to be having problems with it, and I distrust equalizers. (And the "crystalizer" certainly seems to fit that bill.) Are the upgrades in sound quality between the Audigy II-ZS (the ZS version of the card appears to have a better SNR, and support for DTS playback--not that I can really use that anyway until I get a surround sound speaker system) worth buying an X-Fi? How about Audigy IV, as I can't seem to get much of any information on that, would that be a better compromise between sound quality and price? As previously stated, I have an aversion to equalizers and ambience effects and whatnot things that dick with the sound; I'm looking for hte most ACCURATE sound reproduction possible. Or, again, is there a better company out there for this sort of thign than Creative? Woudl i be better-served to just buy an Echo Indigo card and not bother with the firewire box, would that give me equal quality playback to one of these higher-end Creative cards?

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Lysander on
3. Processor. I was originally thinking of getting one of the COnro chips, but in thinking about it I don't really konw if I need it. ...considering my needs, now that processors have significantly dropped in price what processor would oyu say meets but does not exceed my needs for the machine? ...
considering your usage (video and audio playback only) an Intel Core2Duo is overkill regarding the price (E6300 ~ 180€).
a low cost CPU such as an AMD Sempron 3000+ which sells for about 50€ for the boxed version is probably more than enough.
you might want to build up your setup around that, maybe replacing the rather loud CPU cooler by a custom one.
or by adding 20€ there's the lowest Athlon64.
Nothing but a Heartache - Since I found my Baby ;)

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Lysander on
Right now I'm thinking an nvidia6200 graphics card, a gig of RAM, a 7500 SATA 100-gig hard drive, and a moderate AMD chip.


As you'll find, a 100gb drive is more expensive (and less available in shops) than a 160gb drive. Cost per gb wise you're better of with a 250-320gb drive.
If you're not a gamer, the main criterion for choosing a graphics card will be connectivity options. Do you want to run a digital display, multiple displays, maybe hdmi connections?

Quote
I am planning on recording, however I intend to buy an Echo Fire4 to handle that--so all this card would be doing is playback. What, in the opinion of htis forum, is the best card for handling audio playback?


Are there special reasons for not using the Echo as playback device? The balanced outputs can connect to unbalanced equipment. Also, do you want to use analog or digital outputs?
You'll find some good and affordable choices here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=47382

If you don't need the portability of the firewire box, there are some good options from E-MU.

Quote
I can get a 48X16 CD/DVD burner for 30 bucks on newegg. However, I suspect that if I did this, I would be getting a bad burner. Other than speed, what is there to look for in a CD/DVD burner?


You'll find some good clues here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=45551
Which of those drives to get depends on your preferences... anyway, you'll find that a good allrounder is not so expensive. My approach would perhaps be to get two drives... one that excells at ripping, one that does so at writing.

Quote
That said, at what point whould i be throwing good money after bad in the processor market--when woudl i stop noticing a speed increase for the money I am throwing at the processor?


Like Digga says, the Athlon64 can handle all the stuff you want to do. Still, you might want to consider a dual core chip, either a Core 2 Duo or an Athlon64 X2, as recommended by some people here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=45760

If I'd be building a machine today, the choice between the Core 2 Duo and Athlon64 X2 would be made not on cpu speed (which is compensated by prices), but on motherboard options. In other words, I'd pick the motherboard that has the most fitting set of expansion options, driver availability, speed (storage controllers...), and reputation for my needs, then get the cpu that fits on there.

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Lysander on
1. THe sound card. I don't have a surroudn sound system (...yet) and as previously stated, I'm not a gamer. So as far as Creative goes, I dont' see a reason why I should get anything other than an SB Live 24-bit card. Is there any reason why I should get, say, an Audigy II instead? Or--a better question, is there a company that makes better cards than Creative?
Not for gaming. As far as games go, the Creative X-Fi line are probably the best available choice. They are not cheap, so if you are on a budget you might want to look elsewhere. If you are going to primarily game and watch movies, then the Audigy line is probably your best bet.

If you want excellent music playback quality and own a decent system, then don't go with an Audigy. Maybe look at the ESI Juli@, Emu 0404, Chaintech AV710 or even the Live 24bit internal (which RMAA says is superiour to the audigy 2 for stereo playback).

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #5 –
The new Conroe CPUs are really nice. But I'd wait for the prices to drop and then get a low end Core 2 (it will be sufficient IMHO). And make sure to get a board with the newer 965 chipset and not the older 975X. Also stick to DDR ram instead of the more expensive DDR2, since there's not a practical speed gain anyway.

If you can wait a few months or weeks maybe, you should go for a Core 2 system*. They are fast and energy efficient (=easier cooling -> silent PC) even under heavy load. Yep, better Thermal Design Power than the dualcore Athlons. According to the c't magazine the Athlon 64 FX 62 needs 249,6 Watts under full load whereas the Core 2 Extreme X6800 (high end Core 2 in the test) only needs 171,4. And a recommended low end Core 2 would certainly need less than the Core 2 Duo E6600 (smallest Core 2 in the test yet slightly better performance than the FX 62!) (155,0 Watts).

Still the energy hunger of most top Athlon and Core 2 CPU in idle mode is a bit over 100 Watts. That's still a lot. It's your choice whether you want a real low-power CPU or a faster one with higher power consumption. If you choose to get a fast CPU instead of a low-power CPU, the Core 2 are more efficient with a higher CPU performance per Watt ratio. (Note that the Watt figures have been measured at the PSU, so it's what the overall PC system is consuming...)

c't 16/06, p.116f

*=Please note that I'm totally biased because I'm fascinated by how much better Intel's new Core CPUs are compared to the Prescott P4 family.

Btw: Here's alist of some Core 2 Duo/Core Duo/Athlon CPU's TDP...

Core 2 Duo (2.4 - 2.93 GHz) : TDP 65 - 75 Watt (4 MByte shared Cache)
Core 2 Duo (1.86 - 2.13 GHz) : TDP 65 Watt (2 MByte shared Cache)
Core Duo (1.2 - 2.33 GHz) : TDP 9 - 31 Watt (2 MByte shared Cache)
Athlon 64 X2/FX (AM2) (2 - 3 GHz) : TDP 65 - 125 Watt (2x1MByte Cache)
Athlon 64 X2 (AM2) (2 - 2.6 GHz) : TDP 35 - 89 Watt (2x512KByte Cache)
Athlon 64/Sempron (1.6 - 2.4 GHz) : TDP 35 - 62 Watt (512 KByte)

c't 16/06, p.110

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #6 –
@ Fandango:
as the system is used as a playback device only for audio and video, there is no need for a high end CPU such the the new (and very good) Core2Duo or an older Athlon64 FX at all. considering the price range and performance of the FX it's out of the question anyway I would say.
and while the Conroe seems to be a nice buy ATM it is just don't needed with such a setup.

edit: Watt numbers:
AFAIK AMD complains about Intel using TDP as average power consumption. I don't know how true this is or if it's just a marketing trick by AMD (or Intel).
Nothing but a Heartache - Since I found my Baby ;)

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #7 –
DIgga: I won't just be watching movies/audio, I'll also be burning and ripping. (I rip with EAC, as I said earlier, so that puts more load on hte processor because of how it rips multiple times to ensure a, er, exact audio copy.) I imagine this would considerably increase the load on a the CPU.) Fandango, while I want to get a core II, I really can't wait--I'm buying this system Thursday.

Quote from: Patsoe on
As you'll find, a 100gb drive is more expensive (and less available in shops) than a 160gb drive. Cost per gb wise you're better of with a 250-320gb drive.


Fantastic. I really don't need all that space--I already have an 80 gig Pleomax--so whatever's cheapest is what I will go with. So just the speed is what's really important.

Quote from: Patsoe on
If you're not a gamer, the main criterion for choosing a graphics card will be connectivity options. Do you want to run a digital display, multiple displays, maybe hdmi connections?


I plan on getting a flat panel monitor just because they're so much smaller and more convenient than a CRT. Right now I don't have any HDTV stuff and I don't really plan on that changing... it does interest me, thoguh, so having the connectivity there would be nice just in case I ever can use it.

Quote from: Patsoe on
Are there special reasons for not using the Echo as playback device? The balanced outputs can connect to unbalanced equipment. Also, do you want to use analog or digital outputs?


No, there's not a particular reason, other than the admittedly odd philosophy of "if it's geared towards recording, teh recording will be great, but hte playback of other media might not be as good." Since I don't really need the portability of an Audiofire, would there be any real reason not to just get the Indigo and have that be my only sound card? Is there any real difference between teh INdigo and the Audiofire2 other than "one's in a portable firewire case"? I'd like to think that there are differences since the Indigo appears to be five years old.

Quote from: Patsoe on
You'll find some good and affordable choices here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=47382


Yeah, I saw that thread, thanks. I didn't really see anyone coming to some sort of consensus there, so I thought I'd ask it again.

Quote from: Patsoe on
You'll find some good clues here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=45551
Which of those drives to get depends on your preferences... anyway, you'll find that a good allrounder is not so expensive. My approach would perhaps be to get two drives... one that excells at ripping, one that does so at writing.

Butbutbutbut that feels so shamefully waastefull! Anyway, thanks very much for the link--I'm a little confused, though, in the hate on Plextar--why are so many people talking about how this prooves how horrible their drives are when from what I can tell a Plextar drive was the only one in the test to get +s in every category?

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Digga on
@ Fandango:
as the system is used as a playback device only for audio and video, there is no need for a high end CPU such the the new (and very good) Core2Duo or an older Athlon64 FX at all.


The system will be used for recording, editing, burning and ripping, not just playback. Part of me wants to get a 64-bit processor jsut so that I can use programs that support 64-bit processors (such as, oh, say, the operating system, or my Nod32 antivirus program) I also plan on running Vista on the computer at some point--not when it comes out, but probably several months after that. So while I don't want ot buy a processor that's faster than i can use, I would also like to think that I could get a processor that puts out the power I need while still being efficient about it.

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #9 –
Hm, since you want to get this system ASAP, you will probably miss some good opportunities when it comes to lower prices and versatile motherboards when you insist on getting a Core 2 Duo platform.

EDIT:

AFAIK there aren't many 965 motherboards out at the moment (the older 975 really isn't recommended for Core 2). Since money doesn't seem to be that big of a problem for you, the limited choice in motherboards maybe is. Ok, I just checked at Alternate.de and found quite some P965 Motherboards there.

Then getting a mid-range AMD dualcore processor might be the best choice because you have plenty of motherboards to choose from right now. EDIT: But what about AM2? Hmm...

Well. I don't know. I guess the only drawback of choosing Intel now is that the prices will drop in a few weeks but then again that's exactly the same with AMD...  I really don't know.

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Lysander on
DIgga: I won't just be watching movies/audio, I'll also be burning and ripping. (I rip with EAC, as I said earlier, so that puts more load on hte processor because of how it rips multiple times to ensure a, er, exact audio copy.) I imagine this would considerably increase the load on a the CPU.)


That hardly puts load on the cpu... it's just moving some bits around, no computation going on. However, it does hog the system - the cpu is waiting for the cdrw-deck a lot. This is something that should typically be much smoother in a dual core system, and not something that requires high clock speeds.

Quote
Since I don't really need the portability of an Audiofire, would there be any real reason not to just get the Indigo and have that be my only sound card? Is there any real difference between teh INdigo and the Audiofire2 other than "one's in a portable firewire case"? I'd like to think that there are differences since the Indigo appears to be five years old.


The Indigo IO (the version that can do recording) is not so old, and it's a capable card. However, this is a Cardbus card: it's meant for laptops. The E-MU 0404 and 1212M are PCI cards and can provide the same in/outputs as the Indigo at a much lower price. Sound quality is as good as it gets.
Note that you won't get the mic-preamps that the AudioFire4 has though.

Quote
in the hate on Plextar--why are so many people talking about how this prooves how horrible their drives are when from what I can tell a Plextar drive was the only one in the test to get +s in every category?


I guess that's because they're relatively expensive.

Quote
Part of me wants to get a 64-bit processor jsut so that I can use programs that support 64-bit processors


All interesting options are in fact 64bit procs so that's easy

Quote from: Fandango on
AFAIK there aren't many 965 motherboards out at the moment (the older 975 really isn't recommended for Core 2). Since money doesn't seem to be that big of a problem for you, the limited choice in motherboards maybe is.


http://anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=2 ...the guys at Anandtech disagree and recommend the 975 over the 965 for now...

Quote
But what about AM2? Hmm...

I wouldn't buy S939 now, it's nearing it's end of life, and so is DDR memory. With AM2+DDR2, at least you'll have a chance of reusing the RAM... and some news sites say current AM2 mainboards will be able to take next year's quad cores... The platform is potentially faster, too: http://www.lostcircuits.com/motherboard/foxconn_c51xem2aa/

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #11 –
For the record, I don't have my heart set on Core II at all. Let me put it this way. Just a couple of hours ago I saw a 64-bit duel core 2GHZ 935 processor on newegg for $150. After a while, I started to think "...hmm... I don't think I need *quite* that much power... can I get something cheaper?" That is how ridiculous this whole thing is starting to get for me.

Quote from: Patsoe on
The Indigo IO (the version that can do recording) is not so old, and it's a capable card. However, this is a Cardbus card: it's meant for laptops. The E-MU 0404 and 1212M are PCI cards and can provide the same in/outputs as the Indigo at a much lower price. Sound quality is as good as it gets.
Note that you won't get the mic-preamps that the AudioFire4 has though.


Oh dear, i've been mixing up my cards. See, when I said Indigo, what I *meant* was MiaMIDI. But, again--would I be better served to get a Firewire4 (so I can route the sound through guitar effects pedals without overloading the signal path, as I understand would happen if I plugged it into one of the balanced inputs on the Firewire II) and get one of the cards you are suggesting? Or would it not matter and I should simply get a Mia MIDI that would do all I need for a considerably lower price? How about using the Layla or Gina instead of the firewire four--or, again, am I spending too much money on things that don't matter so much?

Quote from: Patsoe on
I guess that's because they're relatively expensive.


I can get one of the PX-230As on newegg for 40 dollars. It retailed for... 65? That's--again, the drive that scored + on everything. What am I missing here? The Premium drive is priced much higher and apears to not perform nearly so adequately, so I understand the negative comments towards that drive specifically, but what's up with the company-bashing? Did they just not read the rest of the round-up? "Hah hah! Take that, Plextor! This magazine clearly shows that your Premium drive is inferior, and that the best drive is *actually*... an... umm... other Plextor drive?"

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #12 –
Answering my own question, the Gina3G is doens't seem to be available for less than $275, which is considerably more than I wanted to spend on this. While the echo Mia does appear to be a very good card (and seemingly interchangeable for the AUdiofire II), it does have three things missing that i find important, in order of importance:

The Mia doens't have a headphone jack (the audiofire II does--but if I get that, i have to have my only sound card on firewire, which strikes me as just slightly insane.)
-No universal inputs
-The SNR of the Gina is about 10 decibals higher.
Is there another product that gives me these benefits without the (to me) unrealistic procepoint, perhaps sacrificing options I do not feel I need such as the varried amount of different digital options/ (I love it, but I just don't have the gear right now to take advantage of it.)

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #13 –
A little thread highjacking:

I'm in the middle of building a new PC just for me, and the CPU is where I got stuck, I'm getting an ASUS barebone system from a local shop, and the specs are and nice allow for some future upgrading, but I hesitated on what CPU to order. I thought a 3.2GHz 541 Prescott would suffice for a mid range machine, but a 2.8GHz 915 Presler dual-core sounds tempting. I'm trying not to go above ~$140.00US on the CPU. This PC will be my workhorse for the next lustre or so, mainly schoolwork, jukebox and the occasional new game. I plan on buying a good video card later on as well as a decent sound card, but those things can wait. Should I go with the 2.8 dual-core or a standard P4?

EDIT: typos.
we was young an' full of beans

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Lysander on
For the record, I don't have my heart set on Core II at all. Let me put it this way. Just a couple of hours ago I saw a 64-bit duel core 2GHZ 935 processor on newegg for $150. After a while, I started to think "...hmm... I don't think I need *quite* that much power... can I get something cheaper?" That is how ridiculous this whole thing is starting to get for me.


Quote from: skelly831 on
I'm in the middle of building a new PC just for me, and the CPU is where I got stuck, I'm getting an ASUS barebone system from a local shop, and the specs are and nice allow for some future upgrading, but I hesitated on what CPU to order. I thought a 3.2GHz 541 Prescott would suffice for a mid range machine, but a 2.8GHz 915 Presler dual-core sounds tempting. I'm trying not to go above ~$140.00US on the CPU.


See the thread I linked to before for some reasons to choose a dual or a single core cpu. Ofcourse, either choice will get you a fine and fast chip. As to the Prescott/Presler chips: most people would prefer an Athlon64 for that money, even if it was only for the Cool-and-Quiet functions.

Quote
Oh dear, i've been mixing up my cards. See, when I said Indigo, what I *meant* was MiaMIDI.


Yeah I can see how that happens... those names sound so alike

Quote
But, again--would I be better served to get a Firewire4 (so I can route the sound through guitar effects pedals without overloading the signal path, as I understand would happen if I plugged it into one of the balanced inputs on the Firewire II) ...... or, again, am I spending too much money on things that don't matter so much?


Such a mic preamp is used to amplify low-level signals. You'll need to look into the specs of the stuff you're connecting to see if you need it. I don't know about guitar stuff

If you're just looking for a line-level recording interface, you'll get excellent semi-pro stuff for a bit over 100 dollars/euro. Integrated preamps will cost quite a bit extra. If you want to know how good it gets at that price: at http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/stest/ you can compare a file having been passed a couple of times through the recording loop of an M-Audio Audiophile with its original. This card is still available, but also note that a newer card like the EMU0404 costs about the same now. So... yes, you may be overspending

Hardly any cards at this price offer a second output for headphones. The Audiophile 192 does, but I'd think paying more than 50 dollar/euro extra for just that is a bit much (you get some improvement of measured performance too, but that's hardly interesting).

Quote
I can get one of the PX-230As on newegg for 40 dollars. It retailed for... 65? That's--again, the drive that scored + on everything. What am I missing here? The Premium drive is priced much higher and apears to not perform nearly so adequately, so I understand the negative comments towards that drive specifically, but what's up with the company-bashing? Did they just not read the rest of the round-up? "Hah hah! Take that, Plextor! This magazine clearly shows that your Premium drive is inferior, and that the best drive is *actually*... an... umm... other Plextor drive?"


The thing is that the PX-230A is not regarded as a real "thoroughbred" Plextor, because the hardware is apparently just a rebadged OEM thing (I don't know the details). And then it turns out to be better than their in-house designed supermodel...

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #15 –
dual core is probably a good option for playing back 1080p encoded with h264, for all the other stuff single cpu will do fine. Iam just watching some 1080 mpeg2 broadcasted clips and the play fine on this machine for example, also 720p h264 plays fine in most cases.

Athlon64 3000 here, running win32, but i will upgrade to some sort of x2 in the near future.
PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung
 

Prefered PC hardware

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Fandango on
Still the energy hunger of most top Athlon and Core 2 CPU in idle mode is a bit over 100 Watts. That's still a lot. It's your choice whether you want a real low-power CPU or a faster one with higher power consumption. If you choose to get a fast CPU instead of a low-power CPU, the Core 2 are more efficient with a higher CPU performance per Watt ratio. (Note that the Watt figures have been measured at the PSU, so it's what the overall PC system is consuming...)


I wonder if C'T tried both nForce and Xpress chipsets? I'm asking because according to TechReport, there's something like a 30-40W difference between the two, explaining why the nForce boards come with heatpipes and all that...

Here's some CPU-only measurements from Lostcircuits (well CPU+ voltage regulator module, actually):
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/low_e/5.shtml
Note that the lowest power AM2 chips (light green bars) carry a small low-power price premium...