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Topic: store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How? (Read 13695 times) previous topic - next topic
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store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

In the announcement for the free Nero Encoder, one of the features stated is:

"* Store Entire Audio Album in a Single .mp4 File with all the Features of an Audio CD embedded inside, but at a fraction of the space!"

I've search all the HA threads and I don't see how to do this.  If I have a CUE+WAV image of CD and feed the WAV to neroAacEnc.exe, I'll get the MP4 output file.  However, that file doesn't have any seek points (or "chapters" ... not sure of the terminology for MP4 M4A files).

What's the trick to get the MP4 file to know about CUE sheet track index points?  People are mentioning all sorts of tagging utilities to embed album art into the mp4 but isn't being able to conveniently jump from song to song within one MP4 more important?

Also, it's not clear if I need to "convert" from MP4 to M4A for use with ipod.  (I don't have an ipod yet so pretty new at this.)

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #1 –
Yamb can mux chapters (or CUE's)  and audio/video. It is an mp4box UI.
http://yamb.unite-video.com/

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #2 –
Should be pretty easy to do with foobar2000. Set the Converter options to use neroAacEnc.exe (you can specify the extension to be m4a), load CUE sheet, select tracks, right-click and select "Convert to album image(s) with cuesheet(s) or chapters"

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Cosmo on
Should be pretty easy to do with foobar2000. Set the Converter options to use neroAacEnc.exe (you can specify the extension to be m4a), load CUE sheet, select tracks, right-click and select "Convert to album image(s) with cuesheet(s) or chapters"


I forgot to say in my initial post that I wanted to avoid GUI utility such as foobar2000.  Is there a command-line way to accomplish this for automated batch files?

Quote from: krazy on
Yamb can mux chapters (or CUE's)  and audio/video. It is an mp4box UI.
http://yamb.unite-video.com/


I noticed a sentence on their features page, "The max number of tracks allowed by MP4Box is 20. Any more than that and this tool wont work."

Did I read that right?  There a tons of music CDs with more than 20 tracks.  That can't be right

I also didn't notice any native CUE sheet file support.  It looks like I have to convert CUE file to OGM or GPAC "chapters".

Why is this concept of a single integrated MP4 so complicated?  Am I simply catching this technology at too early of a stage with all its warts?  I see that WavPack from the very beginning had an easy integrated single file with metadata and track index points.  I'm confused as to why the MP4 approach has to be a science project.

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: wylistener on
Quote from: Cosmo on

Should be pretty easy to do with foobar2000. Set the Converter options to use neroAacEnc.exe (you can specify the extension to be m4a), load CUE sheet, select tracks, right-click and select "Convert to album image(s) with cuesheet(s) or chapters"


I forgot to say in my initial post that I wanted to avoid GUI utility such as foobar2000.  Is there a command-line way to accomplish this for automated batch files?

Quote from: krazy on
Yamb can mux chapters (or CUE's)  and audio/video. It is an mp4box UI.
http://yamb.unite-video.com/


I noticed a sentence on their features page, "The max number of tracks allowed by MP4Box is 20. Any more than that and this tool wont work."

Did I read that right?  There a tons of music CDs with more than 20 tracks.  That can't be right

I also didn't notice any native CUE sheet file support.  It looks like I have to convert CUE file to OGM or GPAC "chapters".

Why is this concept of a single integrated MP4 so complicated?  Am I simply catching this technology at too early of a stage with all its warts?  I see that WavPack from the very beginning had an easy integrated single file with metadata and track index points.  I'm confused as to why the MP4 approach has to be a science project.

It sounds like it is you that is making it a science project. You are limiting yourself from the resources available to you that have taken the science project approach out of it. If gui is absolutely out of the question, then commandline, using/writing batch files is your other option. If you go with an iPod, you may still have tagging issues because iTunes/iPod writes some mp4 tags differently than Nero & foobar2000. I believe this is true with iTunes writing mp3 ID3v2 tags, as well. The easy way out with an iPod is to go the iTunes route, but if you want use another AAC encoder, you'll have to resign yourself to the fact that you'll have to take extra steps to get your desired results.
Surf's Up!
"Columnated Ruins Domino"

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #5 –
There seems to be quite a bit of hype about neroAacEnc.exe here.

Is there anything wrong with faac.exe besides that (acknowleding apples to oranges) it is so much slower at creating VBR m4a files than Lame 3.96.1 is at encoding VBR mp3 files of roughly the same quality?

Speaking of track indexing, is anyone working on an equivalent to ChapterTool for Windows?

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: drbeachboy on
Quote from: wylistener on

I forgot to say in my initial post that I wanted to avoid GUI utility such as foobar2000.  Is there a command-line way to accomplish this for automated batch files?

Quote from: krazy on

Yamb can mux chapters (or CUE's)  and audio/video. It is an mp4box UI.
http://yamb.unite-video.com/


I noticed a sentence on their features page, "The max number of tracks allowed by MP4Box is 20. Any more than that and this tool wont work."

Did I read that right?  There a tons of music CDs with more than 20 tracks.  That can't be right

I also didn't notice any native CUE sheet file support.  It looks like I have to convert CUE file to OGM or GPAC "chapters".

Why is this concept of a single integrated MP4 so complicated?  Am I simply catching this technology at too early of a stage with all its warts?  I see that WavPack from the very beginning had an easy integrated single file with metadata and track index points.  I'm confused as to why the MP4 approach has to be a science project.

It sounds like it is you that is making it a science project. You are limiting yourself from the resources available to you that have taken the science project approach out of it.


Hey, I didn't mean to offend you or anyone about this NeroAAC thing.  I agree with greynols observation that it's overhyped (at this point in time).  A few weeks ago, I simply stumbled across the sticky NeroAAC announcement and the authors proudly proclaim all these great features so I ASSUMED (stupid me) that it was a polished utility all ready to go.  I have since learned that it's still a work-in-progress.  I wanted to avoid GUI because I have thousands of CD images I'd like to convert.  I'm not a foobar2000 expert but I didn't see a way to automagically convert in that GUI except one at a time.

Quote
If gui is absolutely out of the question, then commandline, using/writing batch files is your other option.


But based on my research and others' comments (including your itunes tag comment), there are no commandline utilities that really work, is there?  If nothing really works or it takes a complicated process (your words were "extra steps")  to make it work, than it seems like a "science project".  What would you call all this... "child's play"?   

And what about the limitations I mentioned?  Is that irrelevant?

Quote
If you go with an iPod, you may still have tagging issues because iTunes/iPod writes some mp4 tags differently than Nero & foobar2000. I believe this is true with iTunes writing mp3 ID3v2 tags, as well. The easy way out with an iPod is to go the iTunes route, but if you want use another AAC encoder, you'll have to resign yourself to the fact that you'll have to take extra steps to get your desired results.


Good point.  I have since learned this too.  With all these issues, it just seems strange as to exactly what NeroACC is positioned for.  If it's not a 100% drop in command-line replacement for itunes encoding, and it's not a fully baked utility for complete CD images, than... what's all the excitement about?  People just like to futz around with new encoding programs?!?!  There's got to be more to it than that.

I first encoded MP3 in 1998 with AudioActive and I thought that was "gee whiz cool" --- I'm not getting why this NeroACC is so exciting.

Again, I think I'm just catching this NeroAAC wave a little too early.

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #7 –
I wasn't taking offense. No harm, no foul. Actually, the tagging issues are more of a iTunes problem following standards. Nero & foobar2000 are more to the standard than Apple. If you plan to play your mp4 files on more than the iPod, then you also need to think about things such as gapless playback on other players. iTunes' encoder does not have gapless playback, so Nero would be your choice if that is important to you. For tagging inconsistencies, I use "mp3Tag" to bring my tags as close to iTunes as possible before sending the files to the iPod and writing to it's database. Again, if you go the iPod route sans iTunes, be prepared to do a few extra steps to have your music files consistant to play in other music players. Also, please take a serious look at foobar2000, it writes mp4 chapters for AAC albums, and does all conversions in just a few clicks. Lastly, as hardware, Apple's iPod is terrific. I just hope that in the near future that they add gapless playback to their encoder and bring their tag writing up to the standard.
Surf's Up!
"Columnated Ruins Domino"

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #8 –
My use of the word "hype" was probably inappropriate.

I should have asked what the "buzz" was all about, since I'm curious to know if Nero's new codec is a substantial improvement over faac which I have only dabbled with.

I've been considering re-ripping all my music as m4a in the hopes that I can fit more on my iPod than I can using 3.96.1 --alt-preset standard with the same level of transparency.  The problem is, like I said earlier, faac is so damn slow on my machine.

It was not my intention to sound skeptical.

As for gapless playback on an ipod, even though it's cludgy, people with Macs are supposedly already doing it.

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: wylistener on
In the announcement for the free Nero Encoder, one of the features stated is:

"* Store Entire Audio Album in a Single .mp4 File with all the Features of an Audio CD embedded inside, but at a fraction of the space!"
From what I understand (you'll have to search the thread for the proper explanation) you cannot currently do this with cuesheets, although I think the developers may implement that in future.

The current method is to pass the encoder multiple source files in one call.  The encoder encodes them as one file and adds chapter info.  IIRC.

Edit: Ah, I see you already know this.
I'm on a horse.

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #11 –
Quote
tagging issues are more of a iTunes problem following standards. Nero & foobar2000 are more to the standard than Apple. If you plan to play your mp4


Your statement is miss-leading to say the least, here is how it stands:

mp3: iTunes uses 2.2 as default, it can read/write 2.3 and 2.4 - it is the support for 2.4 that might be a little lacking, the rest are fine (even if iTunes uses some of their own fields which could have gone into standard id3v2 fields). 99.9999% of tagged mp3 files as idv2 will not be id3v2.4, for most compatibility go with 2.3 and it should work in everything (windows / itunes / etc).

m4a / mp4: Apple was there tagging these files many years ago, the 'standard' is theirs. Nero has very recently introduced a new tagging tpe for m4a, the two are totally seperate.

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: greynol on
The problem is, like I said earlier, faac is so damn slow on my machine.

IIRC the development of FAAC has stopped quite a while ago, the main developer went to work for Nero to work on their encoder. Since then both iTunes/Quicktime's and Nero's AAC encoder kept on being improved while FAAC was left at the point where it could just barely compete with the other two. See Roberto Amorim's 2004 128 kbps AAC test. http://www.rjamorim.com/test/aac128v2/results.html

This might be a reason for you to leave FAAC all together and choose between iTunes and Nero.
Every night with my star friends / We eat caviar and drink champagne
Sniffing in the VIP area / We talk about Frank Sinatra
Do you know Frank Sinatra? / He's dead

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #13 –
Quote
Should be pretty easy to do with foobar2000. Set the Converter options to use neroAacEnc.exe (you can specify the extension to be m4a), load CUE sheet, select tracks, right-click and select "Convert to album image(s) with cuesheet(s) or chapters"


Maybe i do something wrong, but while it's true that the process is easy, my ipod (video 60gb) doesn't read the chapters mark.  It play the album like a long song. Also is there a way to embedd album covert into the 1-file album in foobar ?

Thanks, Soren

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: spoon on
Quote
tagging issues are more of a iTunes problem following standards. Nero & foobar2000 are more to the standard than Apple. If you plan to play your mp4


Your statement is miss-leading to say the least, here is how it stands:

mp3: iTunes uses 2.2 as default, it can read/write 2.3 and 2.4 - it is the support for 2.4 that might be a little lacking, the rest are fine (even if iTunes uses some of their own fields which could have gone into standard id3v2 fields). 99.9999% of tagged mp3 files as idv2 will not be id3v2.4, for most compatibility go with 2.3 and it should work in everything (windows / itunes / etc).

m4a / mp4: Apple was there tagging these files many years ago, the 'standard' is theirs. Nero has very recently introduced a new tagging tpe for m4a, the two are totally seperate.

From what I have read so far about tagging standards, I will stand by my statement. Though for mp3's, I should have have stated specifically ID3v2.4 instead of ID3v2. Just because Apple has used their tagging standard for a long time does not make it right. I do not pretend to be an expert, and I do not claim to be, but the authors of foobar2000 & mp3Tag have stated that Apple basically tags mp4 files with their own standard. Date/Year tagging is the first one that comes to mind. Until very recently, disc number and total disc information was stored differently. So, there are some differences that a person needs to be aware of if they are going to use an iPod, and also use other players to play their AAC files. And this was the main point that I was trying to get across in my original post. Personally, I care less about who's right and who's wrong. I just want consistency in my tagging. Everyone sticking to one standard would accomplish that goal.
Surf's Up!
"Columnated Ruins Domino"

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: wylistener on
I noticed a sentence on their features page, "The max number of tracks allowed by MP4Box is 20. Any more than that and this tool wont work."

Did I read that right?  There a tons of music CDs with more than 20 tracks.  That can't be right
Just wanted to point out that this isn't right. I just successfully muxed 28 chapters into a mp4 audio/video file using mp4box and Yamb.

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #16 –
In the announcement for the free Nero Encoder, one of the features stated is:

"* Store Entire Audio Album in a Single .mp4 File with all the Features of an Audio CD embedded inside, but at a fraction of the space!"

     

Hi,

I did convert one CD to a single .mp4 file with FooBar2000 v.0.9.3 - Nero AAC ("Convert to album images with Cuesheet or chapters"). In Foobar can I see and play this single file with all the tracks of this album (chapters?), but in iTunes and on my iPod i see only one file without chapters. What I am doing wrong?

THX Mike

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #18 –
Does iTunes supports chapters? If not, then the problem has nothing to do with tagging standard or variants. It would simply be a missing feature of iTunes. Could someone enlight me about chapters and iTunes? (I can't test: I can't lauch anymore my iTunes' copy :/ ).
Wavpack Hybrid -c4hx6

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: guruboolez on
Does iTunes supports chapters? If not, then the problem has nothing to do with tagging standard or variants. It would simply be a missing feature of iTunes.


Yes, iTunes and iPod support chapters. Have a look here: http://www.tuaw.com/2005/06/28/itunes-4-9-chapters/      (it´s only for Mac)

I´d buy some audiobooks, there are chapters with separately names in one .m4b file - showing in iTunes and on iPod. But I don´t know, how to make from my CD-Books the same - I hoped FooBar is the solution.

Interesting: in FooBar does it funktions, but iTunes/Pod sees the file as one piece without chapters...any idea how to make it?

I´d like to convert my Audiobooks on CDs in one .m4b file with chapters to hear it on iPod. To take about 560 .mp3 files of Harry Potter on the iPod and remember, whitch one I heard last time is too heavy...

Is there anyone, who can write a prog like this http://gapless.itunes.wanderingfocus.com/ for Windows?

THX Mike
Mike

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #20 –
Well, even tough MP4 container format is based on the QuickTime MOV container format I don't see why Apple is lagging behind the other MPEG-4 implementors (Coding Technologies and Nero AG) when it comes to the features. Apple should be setting a good example and lead the development, but instead they are just letting others do the heavy work.

My preferred encoder for AAC will be NeroAacEnc and I will be using FooBar2000 which uses it's own MP4 component for the tagging of the files.

I am also using the Coding Technologies AACplus v2 encoder DLL (enc_aacplus.dll) from Winamp together with a console based frontend and this works just as fine in FooBar2000 after adding a custom encoder.
This encoder also supports MP4 container if you have the MP4Box program available.

Apple only support chapters for .m4b files. I think you will have to rename the .m4a or .mp4 multi-chapter files to .m4b in order to make it work. The reason I think you will have to do this is because I had to rename my .mp4 files to .m4a in order to make them work on my Sony Ericsson K800i mobile phone. I have now changed the MP4 (Nero) preset in FooBar2000 to custom and changed the extension to the more appropriate .m4a one.

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #21 –
Perhaps it is important to point out that there is no standard way for MP4 to implement chapters, They must be implemented as private stream like Nero does (or is possible with advanced content, but that seems silly for such a basic feature), so company A's implementation might be different from company B (kinda like with the tags).

I consider it a serious flaw that a modern container does not have this, but hey, who am I?

Open standards, gotta love 'm.
"We cannot win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win."

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #22 –
Quote from: stephanV on
I consider it a serious flaw that a modern container does not have this, but hey, who am I?

Open standards, gotta love 'm.


That's why I use Matroska container to store my audio CDs and DVDs. There are many advantages over other formats. Unfortunately there is no support in HW players.

But until there will be many people using it, no company will be interested in adding support for Matroska.

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #23 –
Quote from: stephanV on
Perhaps it is important to point out that there is no standard way for MP4 to implement chapters

Not completely true. If you have a real MP4 file with a ObjectDescriptor you can use segmentDescriptor inside the OD to set chapters. All you need is a player which can read the segmentDescriptor from the OD(ObjectDescriptor)

Apple iTunes files don't have an OD. The conclusion from this, it's not a MP4 file according to  ISO/IEC 14496-14. Apple iTunes files come with main ftyp set to "M4A ". So i would say they defined there own Standard based at ISO/IEC 14496-12 (ISO base media file format).


Quote from: stephanV on
, They must be implemented as private stream like Nero does (or is possible with advanced content, but that seems silly for such a basic feature), so company A's implementation might be different from company B (kinda like with the tags).

Nero doesn't use a private stream for chapters. They use the udta (User Data Box/Atom) to store the chapter information.
With advanced mp4 feature based on BIFS you could interact(created a menu) with the segmentDescriptor inside the ObjectDescriptor. But you could also let the player handle that. 

Nowadays there is no Player(ok there is Osmo4 from http://gpac.sf.net and some other) which handle real MP4 files according to the specs. 
If you take a look at this from this side, there is no hardware support for MP4 files. Al player out there only support ISO media compatible files. This also true for the most software players out there.

Just my opinion about this.
Richard

store entire CD into a single MP4 file? How?

Reply #24 –
Thanks for the corrections.
"We cannot win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win."