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Topic: Networkfeature on new AV Receiver from Denon software question (Read 4584 times) previous topic - next topic
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Networkfeature on new AV Receiver from Denon software question

Hi, I'm thinking of buying the new Denon AVR 4306 receiver. It has a cool networkfeature wich means you can connect it to your home network and stream audio directly to it. The specificationsheet of the receiver says that I need Windows MediaConnect or DLNA (Digital Living Network Alliance) supported software. I'm not much of a Windows fan so I like to know which sofware is working according the DLNA Guidelines. So far I've found software from Cyberlink but other than that Google didn't came up with much results. Any of you guys happen to know more about this subject please tell me.

This is a part from the Denon's productsheet.

Connectivity/Expandability
 Denon's new home network function
The AVR-4306 is equipped with an Ethernet port that lets you build various types of network
environments. You can use these network environments to take advantage of 3 new home
audio network functions:
(1) Audio Media Client from Music Server
The AVR-4306's Audio Media Client function lets you stream audio over the network from the
Music Server. This network connection uses 2 standard technologies: The Designed to DLNA
(DLNA: Digital Living Network Alliance) Guidelines, and Windows® Media Connect. Supported
audio formats are MP3, WAV (LPCM), and WMA.
(2) Internet Radio
Internet Radio is a system that lets you hear radio broadcasts from stations on the Internet.
A wide variety of stations, both large and small and some which are operated by individuals,
can be found on the Internet. Until now, radio stations could only be heard if you were within
listening range of their radio waves, but with Internet Radio, you can listen to broadcasts from all
over the world. The list of stations that the AVR-4306 uses comes from the vTuner radio station
database that has been customized for Denon.
(3) A/V Receiver Network Setup (Web control)
This function lets you set up and control the A/V receiver over a network using Internet Explorer on
a PC. The AVR-4306's Ethernet port also supports serial controls that use Crestron and others.

Networkfeature on new AV Receiver from Denon software question

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Pringle on
that I need Windows MediaConnect or DLNA (Digital Living Network Alliance) supported software. I'm not much of a Windows fan so I like to know which sofware is working according the DLNA Guidelines. So far I've found software from Cyberlink but other than that Google didn't came up with much results. Any of you guys happen to know more about this subject please tell me.


There are a free NAS devices about that can function as DLNA servers for example the Buffalo Terrastation. They seem to be promoting it into embedded devices rather than servers running on general purpose PCs. From reading the specs the whole thing appears to be DRMed upto the hilt as well.

There are a few server implementations for Linux but they are all pay for commercial and are mostly middleware aimed at companies making embedded devices running Linux and selling them as "Media Servers". I strongly suspect that there will never be an FOSS DLNA server as the whole thing is DRMed up to the hilt, you have to join DLNA or spend money even to get the specification and I strongly suspect there is an onerous license agreement.

As far as I can tell DLNA doesn't support any lossless compressed audio formats. You can either use uncompressed LPCM, or you have to use AC3,AAC, ATRAC or WMA. A server could always transcode something like FLAC into LPCM before sending it across the network but realistically most commerical companies aren't going to bother.

If you're not handy with bodging Linux stuff and you content with a closed system with the limitations described above then by all means buy the Denon and a NAS device to serve it. If you are handy with Linux then a silent PC with a decent digital output might be a better bet, you can even get things with small VFD displays and remote controls what can prod media centre software for when you haven't got a TV attached to it. The number of pieces of media center software for Linux boggles the mind, if any of them are any good is another matter...

Networkfeature on new AV Receiver from Denon software question

Reply #2 –
Quote from: chelgrian on
There are a few server implementations for Linux but they are all pay for commercial and are mostly middleware aimed at companies making embedded devices running Linux and selling them as "Media Servers". I strongly suspect that there will never be an FOSS DLNA server as the whole thing is DRMed up to the hilt, you have to join DLNA or spend money even to get the specification and I strongly suspect there is an onerous license agreement.

As far as I can tell DLNA doesn't support any lossless compressed audio formats. You can either use uncompressed LPCM, or you have to use AC3,AAC, ATRAC or WMA. A server could always transcode something like FLAC into LPCM before sending it across the network but realistically most commerical companies aren't going to bother.

Aint so. DLNA appears to only mean that jpeg, lpcm and mpeg2 are supported. Everything else is per manufacturer bonus.


(http://www.dlna.org/about/dlna_white_paper_2006.pdf)

You can download upnp's specs from www.upnp.org and start building your application. You don't actually need DLNA's specs because it's based solely on upnp with some minor additions. So DLNA is basicly only about certifying upnp devices just like Wi-Fi Alliance does for wlan devices.

And the best part is that some upcoming Nokia's N Series phones support upnp streaming of video and audio to your home rig.

Networkfeature on new AV Receiver from Denon software question

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Latexxx on
Aint so. DLNA appears to only mean that jpeg, lpcm and mpeg2 are supported. Everything else is per manufacturer bonus.


The public bits of their spec makes all the formats I mentioned "optionally supported".  The formats you mentioned are the only ones that have to be supported in order to get certification.

Quote from: Latexxx on
You can download upnp's specs from www.upnp.org and start building your application. You don't actually need DLNA's specs because it's based solely on upnp with some minor additions. So DLNA is basicly only about certifying upnp devices just like Wi-Fi Alliance does for wlan devices.


DLNA does specify a DRM at the IP protocol level called DTCP (which has nothing to do with TCP) to my knowledge this isn't part of UPnP. I also can't work out if this is mandatory, so even stuff that's in the clear to start off with has to be ciphered, or if it's optional.

If it's optional then a server could be cooked up which only supported non DRMed files. If it's mandatory then you are left with either breaking it. I would not be at all supprised if DLNA would refuse to license a Linux implementation aimed at end users just as the DVD Forum refuse the license CSS for writing a DVD play back program for Linux for end users. There is licensed middleware in existance for Linux for DVD playback but the licensees (CyberLink) are only allowed to sell into the embedded market.

Networkfeature on new AV Receiver from Denon software question

Reply #4 –
Quote
t If you are handy with Linux then a silent PC with a decent digital output might be a better bet, you can even get things with small VFD displays and remote controls what can prod media centre software for when you haven't got a TV attached to it. The number of pieces of media center software for Linux boggles the mind, if any of them are any good is another matter...


Funny, I'm just trying to get rit of my HTPC. It's silent and has a nice soundcard but man it's hungry! In idle it uses 120 watt and with the energy prices these days (22  cents per Kwh here in Holland) listening to MP3's can be an expensive hobby. More over my TV has to be on all the time or my other PC with remote desktop.  Not exactly the most efficient way to listen music. I've been thinking about building a mini-itx system with one of those VIA motherboards. But now Denon has come up with this new receiver and it could be just what i need. 

(I imagine now the idea of having flac encoded music being converted to pcm and then streamed directly to my receiver. Does it get any better then that, hehe  ) Well, probebly flac hardware support on the Denon.. but hey life isn't perfect 

About the server.

I have a Linux-server running 24-7 that I also use for storing my music collection. What piece of software do I have to install to make it a musicserver and more important in such a way my Denon will function with it as client? I can't find any opensource project, I checked sourceforge and everything. Since it's just upnp with some aditions it shouldn't be that hard i think. Maybe it's not mainstream enough... any ideas?

Networkfeature on new AV Receiver from Denon software question

Reply #5 –
Hi,

Did you also look at the Kenwood VRS N8100 ? It also has an ethernet port, is a bit cheaper, but sound quality wise not worse. The PC Server program is written in java and there has been several people telling to have it running on Linux (although I am still working on it). It can also stream video and some versions of divx.

BTW, you sound as some guy, which the openkwd project could use as a partner/developer.

Have Fun

jab
 

Networkfeature on new AV Receiver from Denon software question

Reply #6 –
Quote from: jab on
Hi,

Did you also look at the Kenwood VRS N8100 ? It also has an ethernet port, is a bit cheaper, but sound quality wise not worse. The PC Server program is written in java and there has been several people telling to have it running on Linux (although I am still working on it). It can also stream video and some versions of divx.

BTW, you sound as some guy, which the openkwd project could use as a partner/developer.

Have Fun

jab


HI, i've been away for a while, so my reply is bit late.

What is openkwd? I've not found a os project with that name. Can you tell me more??

I did not yet had a look at the Kenwood receiver but so far the features sounds good
In the mean while Denon has come up with yet another receiver AVR2807 wich has pretty much the same features as it's more expensive brother. I have yet to deside what to buy.