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Topic: Winamp Output Plugins... (Read 8637 times) previous topic - next topic
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Winamp Output Plugins...

i have been using the waveout output plugin for winamp b/c i believe i heard somewhere that it was superior to the directsound output, was this true and has it become false since the directsound output has been updated?  thanks in advance.

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #1 –
Basically:

WaveOut for Win9x/Me
DirectSound for WinNT/2K/XP

That's all.

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #2 –
im running xp.  what are the advantages/disadvantages to running a certain output plugin per your os?  does it have to do w/ resource consumption/management?

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #3 –
Quote
im running xp.  what are the advantages/disadvantages to running a certain output plugin per your os?  does it have to do w/ resource consumption/management?

Yes.

Waveout works perfectly with Win9X/Me, but Directsound is slow.

On the other hand, DS works perfectly with 2k/XP, while WaveOut is buggy.

Regards;

Roberto.

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #4 –
Does DirectSound bybass the dreaded "Kmixer"? Volume slider still works with DS.

I just set MediaJukebox to use DS instead of waveout. Maybe that will solve the popping problem (1st 5 to 10 secs when file changes type (ie ogg to mp3 or vice versa)).

Xenno
No one can be told what Ogg Vorbis is...you have to hear it for yourself
- Morpheus

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #5 –
From Peter's out_ds FAQ

Q: What's the difference between DirectSound and waveOut ?
A: Short version: you should use waveOut on win95/98/me/nt4 and DirectSound on win2k/xp/<insert name of future windows OS here>.
Long version:
waveOut is old, outdated API (Application Programming Interface) for playing digital sounds in 32bit Windows OS's. Old OS's (all win9x and nt4) have good waveOut implementation; you should use waveOut output on those for best performance. waveOut features are limited; it doesn't even natively support mixing multiple streams. It appears that waveOut is provided in win2k/xp only for compatibility with old software - win2k/xp waveOut implementation is rather bad, it doesn't use any kind of hardware acceleration; all mixing is performed by software (may interrupt sound when CPU usage is high).
DirectSound is the new "modern" sound playback API, available as redistributable for all versions of 32bit Windows OS's (though nt4 directsound is terribly broken from my experience). DirectSound natively supports mixing multiple streams, independent volume control, hardware acceleration layer & hardware emulation layer (features which aren't supported by hardware are emulated by software, so the programmer doesn't have to worry if his new l33t code will work right on old sb16). DirectSound should be generally fine to use everywhere except for nt4, as long as you have latest DirectX version for your OS and proper soundcard drivers installed. DirectSound is preferred over waveOut on win2k/xp, because their DirectSound implementation is relatively good (eats less CPU than waveOut and is free of win2k/xp waveOut implementation glitches). DirectSound was originally designed to let games utilize hardware acceleration available on your system without having to touch low-level hardware functions directly (like any other component of DirectX).

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #6 –
If you're using the directsound plugin at a sample rate not supported by your soundcard, and your soundcard doesn't have hardware resampling, you must be sure to set the "sample rate conversion quality" slider in the advanced audio properties>performance tab to "best" on win2k (it's already there in winXP).  Documented at:
MSDN documentation
on Microsoft's site.  There's plenty of intresting info on WDM and directsound available at the MSDN website--I wasted an hour just randomly looking around there.

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #7 –
I been using the Directsound plugin for awhile now, and I have not run into any problems using it. I currently use Win ME so I would recommend people to use the Directsound version of the plugin, unless it causes problems. The Directsound plugin is far superior to the Wave Out plugin, but on older computers (e.g. My old Windows 95 box) it causes problems, so I use Wave Out on these computers.

Laters
AgentMil
-=MusePack... Living Audio Compression=-

Honda - The Power of Dreams

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #8 –
Quote
Does DirectSound bybass the dreaded "Kmixer"?

No, it does not, but you may be relieved to know that SP1 updated KMixer, providing sound quality equal to Wave Out now.  (finally)

To bypass kmixer completely you need to use ASIO.
In Case Of Bose, Break Glass
Flac yuo in teh ASIO!

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #9 –
What is this Kmixer problem?..

edited:
A nice page with an explanation about it as well. http://www.staudio.de/kb/english/drivers/
ripped from the page:

The most important addition is the so-called KMixer (= Kernel Mixer) that allows mixing, effect processing (via operating system plugins), encoding/decoding (e.g. mp3 or AC-3 data) that works on kernel mode built-into the operating system. The problem however is that the KMixer adds about 20~30ms of latency to any processed audiosignal. What is nice for consumer applications is not usable for any modern audio-sequencer that integrates software synthesizers.

That means that WDM is not as good as VXD or NT4 Kernel Mode when it comes to regular audio applications using DirectSound or MME. Of course it makes no difference when using ASIO or GSIF as these APIs are bypassing the KMixer.

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #10 –
may i ask why the heck would you ever need less-than-20ms latency between decoder and output when playing regular music ? to make sure that you get happy pauses/pops whenever some program humps your cpu ?
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #11 –
But, the question is, does kmixer alter the signal in any way, and under what circunstances?

Edit: according with MSDN documentation, it only resamples when it has to mix different audio streams at different sampling rates.

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #12 –
Quote
may i ask why the heck would you ever need less-than-20ms latency between decoder and output when playing regular music ? to make sure that you get happy pauses/pops whenever some program humps your cpu ?

Not for PLAYING.. For MAKING
20ms latency is certainly not acceptable to my opinion when using software synthisizers, such as Reaktor. A latency of ~5ms is.
20ms for playing?  I'd use a higher latency.. heh..

And i love your work Peter!

And your signature just cracked me up! hahahaha....

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #13 –
you love writing pointless confusing offtopic posts dont you
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #14 –
yeah well.. i never told you i loved you peter, so this was my chance.. i love you peter....

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #15 –
Quote
But, the question is, does kmixer alter the signal in any way, and under what circunstances?

Edit: according with MSDN documentation, it only resamples when it has to mix different audio streams at different sampling rates.

KMixer does seem to alter the signal. There is a well known case that shows this, playback of a DTS CD. In order to listen to the DTS encoded material the data from the CD must be sent unmodified to an external DTS decoder. The only way that I know of to do this is to use the ASIO Winamp plugin or a soundcard with drivers that bypass KMixer by other means. Using DirectSound or WaveOut results in noise.

Winamp Output Plugins...

Reply #16 –
So i assume you guys have hardware acceleration turned on in windows

Kinda new to this forum and new setting up sound stuff and things like that , so why not ask i thought myself .

Been doing some EAC+Lame ripping for like 6 months now so thats going fine aswel

But what settings do you guys use with the direct sound output ?