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Topic: Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition (Read 10744 times) previous topic - next topic
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Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

I have been copying some of my vinyl to 24/96 recently.  Using Audacity to record, Goldwave to perform pop/click removal then FLAC encoding.  However today I noticed an odd thing if I produce two separate FLAC files as follows:
1)  Record in Audacity and save to WAV.  FLAC this file
2)  Record in Audacity, save to WAV, open WAV in Goldwave and resave (doing nothing else).  FLAC this file

The second FLAC file is significantly larger than the first,  (by about 50%!).  If I open in Audition and resave the same thing occurs.  It seems the resaving is introducing some kind of 'noise' to the file that FLAC has a hard time dealing with.  Is this an artifact of the software upsampling then downsampling again?!

Even stranger,  if I record directly in Goldwave then FLAC the resulting WAV, the FLAC file comes out larger than if I'd recorded in Audacity.  Same if I record in Audition too.
In all cases I am using 24 bit signed integer at 96khz. 

Basically it seems that Audition and Goldwave are doing something undesirable to the file that Audacity isn't.This seems a bit hard to believe as Audacity is freeware and the other two are $$$ware...  W, T and indeed F 

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #1 –
Audition doesn't record in 24 bit... it records in 16 bit or 32 bit float.
32 bit float will use 8/24 (33%) more space than a true 24bit file.
Cheers,
Bruce.
www.audio2u.com
The home of quality podcasts
(including Sine Language, a weekly discussion on all things audio)

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #2 –
Ah ok  Well I am saving it in 24 bit anyway.

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #3 –
Maybe that's it.  Audacity does record in actual 24 bit if you tell it to.  Goldwave and Audition are recording the wav at 32 bit.  Also when the wav is opened it gets up converted to 32 bit then downsampled again for saving as 24 bit.  I am suprised that this would fubar the wav enough to cause such a big disparity in compressability 

Guess I better find a pop-click removal plugin for Audacity then...

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #4 –
Suprised nobody has been prepared to hazard a guess at this,  there again I didn't name the thread as well as I could 

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #5 –
I searched google for "audition OR cooledit  24bit OR 24-bit 32bit OR 32-bit"

And found this:
'Proper' isn't the correct word to describe this - 'Integer' is the one you need. A 32-bit Floating Point file is effectively a 24-bit file with an exponent - but you can't say that it's not proper! The answer to your question though, is to look in the 'options' box when you go to save your 32-bit file. There you can choose to save it in a 24-bit integer format if you want.
here:
http://www.audiomastersforum.org/amforum/topic-3217.html

And this:
There is however a 32-bit format that is actually a 24-bit float format.
-32-bit 24.0 float (Full 32-bit floats are actually saved but the .wav BitsPerSample field is set to 24 while BlockAlign is still set to 4 bytes per channel.)
here:
http://www.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php...090&highlight=&

recording formats (was: Fact or Myth? Black CDs)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.au...c3b308012db598d

Any point recording audio in 32bit?
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.au...8cb445f1e16d91b

Sound Forge 32 bit???
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.au...615633e11561daa

recording without saving
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.au...46ba55e37552546

Hope you can find the answer eventually.

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #6 –
Thanks for the research.  After a bit more looking it confirms what I said about Audition only recording in 16 or 32 bit.  However both Goldwave (despite what I said earlier) and Audacity are both recording as  24bit Integer PCM.  The only difference i can think of is that Audacity is recording as singed and Goldwave maybe as unsigned?!

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #7 –
Can you capture in 32bit? Why not just record as and process as 32bit?

It might not be lossless for future DVD-A burning, though, as I believe DVD-A is only 24bit.

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #8 –
Watch out for the save options in cool edit/audition.
If you select the right option, there should be no difference between the original file and the opened/re-saved one and thus no different flac compression ratio.
I know that I know nothing. But how can I then know that ?

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #9 –
Hi,

I assume you mean you're using Goldwave to manually 'draw out' big pops and clicks, it's probably one of the best for that purpose.

But don't use it's de-click algorthm, it's desultory - there are much better ones out there.

R.

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #10 –
Quote
Hi,

I assume you mean you're using Goldwave to manually 'draw out' big pops and clicks, it's probably one of the best for that purpose.

But don't use it's de-click algorthm, it's desultory - there are much better ones out there.

R.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=311013"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I do manually fix certain things in Goldwave, but I also use the de-click program.  I've found quite good results by using it specifically,  rather than just over the whole file.  What would you suggest is better?

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #11 –
Quote
I do manually fix certain things in Goldwave, but I also use the de-click program.   I've found quite good results by using it specifically,  rather than just over the whole file.  What would you suggest is better?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=311228"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I havn't used Goldwave for de-clicking since v.4.x  -  maybe the dude (Canadian?) has licensed a plugin or even written a 'proper' algorithm, but I doubt he can afford the time/money for either, given it's such an inexpensive package to buy.

Then it used the simplest 'join-the-dots' algorithm, which works OK for near-silence, well into fades and stuff, but even then often leaves a kind of 'gurgling' in place of vinyl noise.

I use either the de-clicker in Cool-edit (Adobe Audition), or preferably 'Wave Corrector', section by section.

There are several other shareware programs available, all with their advocates, many of which seem to have have had a lot of effort put into them, which use proper interpolation to 'hide' the effects of click removal more benignly.

There are also some quite expensive dedicated programs such as 'Diamond cut'

The mother of  them all is 'Cedar', a plugin for 'Pro Tools' which costs 100's on top of the cost of Pro Tools itself.

But certainly it's worth having a proper 'interpolating' program or plugin of some kind if you're doing a lot of vinyl-to-digital.

ciao,
Rainer.

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #12 –
woops.

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #13 –
Quote
The mother of  them all is 'Cedar', a plugin for 'Pro Tools' which costs 100's on top of the cost of Pro Tools itself.

Are you sure about that one RockFan?
I might be wrong (been known to happen!), but I only know of CEDAR being a stand alone unit.
Is it possible that you may be confusing it with a plugin for ProTools called DINR (Dynamic Intelligent Noise Reduction?)
I will admit to not being a ProTools afficianado (my specialty is Audition), so it's possible that there is a CEDAR plugin for PT. But I AM cretain that CEDAR at least started out as a stand alone product.
Cheers,
Bruce.
www.audio2u.com
The home of quality podcasts
(including Sine Language, a weekly discussion on all things audio)

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #14 –
Quote
Quote
The mother of  them all is 'Cedar', a plugin for 'Pro Tools' which costs 100's on top of the cost of Pro Tools itself.

Are you sure about that one RockFan?
I might be wrong (been known to happen!), but I only know of CEDAR being a stand alone unit.
Is it possible that you may be confusing it with a plugin for ProTools called DINR (Dynamic Intelligent Noise Reduction?)
I will admit to not being a ProTools afficianado (my specialty is Audition), so it's possible that there is a CEDAR plugin for PT. But I AM cretain that CEDAR at least started out as a stand alone product.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


indeed, checking their website out;

[a href="http://www.cedar-audio.com/]http://www.cedar-audio.com/[/url]

They specialize in rack units for professional audio and film restoration.

But if you go to 'downloads' the plugin for PT is there. Kind of moot for most of us mortals/amateurs (should speak for myself, of course)  as Pro Tools alone is  .... HOW MUCH ???!!!!!

The one I've nearly stumped up the cash for a couple of times  is Diamond Cut - used in the Library Of Congress amongst other places.

R.

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #15 –
Mmmm, I must be going blind in my old age, RockFan. I couldn't see it there. I saw there was a plugin for Pyramix, but I couldn't see one for PT.
Still, I believe you.
I didn't realise they'd started doing plugins for ANYBODY. I thought it was still a stand alone box.
Ya learn summin' every day!
Cheers,
Bruce.
www.audio2u.com
The home of quality podcasts
(including Sine Language, a weekly discussion on all things audio)

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #16 –
How is Steinberg Declicker?

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #17 –
Hi - I work for a Digidesign Pro Tools dealer.
The DNS2000 for Pro Tools is a 1U rackmount unit, that is remote-controlled by a helper app that manifests itself as a Pro Tools plug-in. ALL of the processing is done outside Pro Tools by the DNS2000 unit.

Audacity vs Goldwave vs Audition

Reply #18 –
Quote
Hi - I work for a Digidesign Pro Tools dealer.
The DNS2000 for Pro Tools is a 1U rackmount unit, that is remote-controlled by a helper app that manifests itself as a Pro Tools plug-in. ALL of the processing is done outside Pro Tools by the DNS2000 unit.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=311641"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Ah. Thanks for clarifying.

R.