Which DAP tp buy?

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Which DAP tp buy?

2005-01-25 14:23:53

Hi,
I have used a Zen Xtra 3GB for almost a year now. I took good care of it. But still, it seems to be acting up lately. It resets itself whenever it wants to and hangs ver often. Also, the backlight keeps flickering when I scroll down any list. I always suspected the build quality of the Xtra. That's why I went in for an extended warranty. Glad that I did. However, I now have a choice. I can buy a Zen Xtra all over again or buy either a Rio Karma or an iPod. I really value audio quality and many people believe that the Zen is the best in this department. How is the build quality of the Karma? I believe that the scroll-wheel is really fragile and that they don't include a case to protect it. I want to stay away from the iPod although I love the scroll wheel and the cool looks. However, I am wary of it not being able to decode LAME --aps files accurately. Can someone post feedbacks of their experiences with their Rio Karmas and their iPods. I really love the Zen Xtra, but for it's shoddy build quality. Thanks.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #1 – 2005-01-25 14:50:20

I bought a used Rio Karma about 1 month ago. I'm pretty happy with it; navigation using the scrollwheel is very fast, gapless and vorbis support is great, sound quality is great and the dock is very useful. Downsides are the missing USB mass storage support and the fact, that it crashed a few times since I got it and had to be resetted using a paperclip...

Overall I think it's the best player on the market today - as long as there is no rockbox for iRiver

regards; ilikedirt

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #2 – 2005-01-25 14:52:35

I have a zen touch 20gb . Seems well built , good battery life, almost gapless, can handle --aps, --apm, V5, vbr fast, sound is pretty good with sens px100 phones.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #3 – 2005-01-25 14:59:16

I've had a Rio Karma for about 9 months now, and I love it. The sound quality and battery life are great and the USB transfers are quite fast. (The Ethernet transfers are slow, however.)

I've heard the stories (like everyone else) about the hard-drive failures with the Karma, but I've never had a problem. I've even dropped my Karma (from about 4 feet onto bare concrete) and the only damage it sustained was a small nick on the case.

If you want to read a real survival story about a Karma, check this out.

The reason I bought it in the first place was because of the FLAC and OggVorbis support - not to mention the gapless playback, which is absolutely essential to me! At the time I was shopping, I was also looking at the iRiver H-series, but they did not have acceptable output (volume) levels for me. The output on the iPod and the Karma were more than enough for my ears, but since I wanted gapless playback and Vorbis support, I went with the Karma.

As far as protection for it, you can get screen protectors here, and cases here and here

I've never experienced any problem with my Karma and it has always functioned perfectly for me.

:edit: Also, the docking station has RCA outputs so the Rio can be directly connected to a home stereo - very nice feature!

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #4 – 2005-01-25 16:48:51

I own a 3rd generation 20GB iPod and I must say I love it. I especially love how easy it is to sync the iPod with iTunes. The iTunes software itself was a major deciding factor for me as I fell in love with it once I used it a little while. Made my digital music experience so easy and efficient. As far as audio quality goes, the iPod does perform well. The earbuds included with the iPod are crap though so you will want to use better ones. The iPod has performed very well for me and has not let me down yet. The iPod has the lowest battery life of all the other larger DAPs out there but I have yet to run out of battery life while using it and I only get 8 hours of battery life on mine (if that really). The equalizer options on the iPod aren't as great if you like those. The equalizer supports the equalizer presets that are in iTunes so you can select those while playing music on your iPod, however, you can't customize the equalizer yourself on the iPod. I have played LAME --aps MP3s on my iPod and haven't had one issue. iTunes also recognizes and plays back LAME --aps MP3s just fine.

That's my 2 cents. Hope it helps ya out.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #5 – 2005-01-25 17:59:34

I have an iAudio M3L. it's a 20GB player with over 30 hours of playback time per charge (yes, 30 hours) and great audio quality. It supports ogg vorbis and flac as well as mp3. Simply awesome. Only caveat is that without the screen on the remote, it's very difficult to use (no screen on the main unit).

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #6 – 2005-01-25 21:05:01

I personally love my iRiver iHP-120. I picked between it and the Rio Karma. Although the Karma had gapless which I really wanted I was afraid of hard drive failure so I steered toward the iRiver. Selling points for me were the remote which I use all the time, Vorbis support, long battery life (over 16 hours with -V 5 LAME mp3), drag and drop capability with filetree navigation, and the sleek black look All of the DAPs are good but they're just made for different people. The important thing is to get the one you like most.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #7 – 2005-01-25 21:32:10

I basically 2nd everything Teqnilogik said. LAME APS and iPods are not an issue.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #8 – 2005-01-25 22:52:11

Thanks for the replies. I am really considering buying the Rio Karma. I haven't decide yet, so any more replies are still welcome. Thanks again.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #9 – 2005-01-25 23:45:24

Last year's Zen Xtras (20, 30, 40, 60GB versions) are probably the price/performance leaders, for a high volume manufacturer at least. You can find the 40GB variant for about $200. A lot of storage, very good sound quality, good navigation, great price. I am satisfied with the build quality of mine and the only trouble it has given me in 10 weeks of ownership is that it froze once early on.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #10 – 2005-01-26 05:17:34

I've had a Karma for about 9 months and an iPod for 1 1/2 years. Nothing against the iPod, but I much prefer the Karma and in fact rarely use the iPod. After months of heavy use, the Karma still works flawlessly.

For me, the Karma's strengths are gapless playback; Flac and Vorbis support; parametric equalizer; ability to create, delete, or modify playlists on the fly; RCA outputs from the dock; and better battery life than the iPod (which I consider to be inadequate). The Rio Music Manager software is excellent for transferring music to and from the Karma.

Its drawbacks are that it's limited to 20GB capacity unless you mod it yourself, and it doesn't support AAC or sync with iTunes.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #11 – 2005-01-26 23:41:47

I'm leaning towards the Karma, but was looking at the iAudio M3L. It does support FLAC but what about Id3 tags? There was a review stating it supported a raw path/filename structure. I get the feeling the M3L is on par with the Karma sonically but they have minor differences like size of unit, layout (screen on remote), etc.

I'm interested to hear more on the M3 models from owners.

DC

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #12 – 2005-01-27 03:51:45

Quote

Hi,
I have used a Zen Xtra 3GB for almost a year now. I took good care of it. But still, it seems to be acting up lately. It resets itself whenever it wants to and hangs ver often. Also, the backlight keeps flickering when I scroll down any list.

I also have an Xtra and was curious if you've done the usual troubleshooting steps to see if your player behaves. I think the file system can sometimes become corrupt.

What I usually do is the following:

1. Install latest firmware (1.20.08) and drivers (1.26.02) http://us.creative.com/support/downloads/download.asp

2. Boot into rescue mode http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/bo...ap&message.id=3 and run a disk cleanup.

3. If that doesn't help, then as a last resort do a clean format from rescue mode and reload your music.

HTH

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #13 – 2005-01-27 05:27:12

i Have a zen xtra it is good and it doesnt crash,backlight is good.If you want to do lossles backups you could use wma lossles has a good compression ratio.Sound is awsome with the zen's.I hook it up to my stereo and damn it sounds good with the bass up.Zen xtra also has advanced audio enhancments like equal volume control
to play music the same volume.like a HQ realtime normalizer but doesnt affect files.built in equalizer i tuned it for big bass sounds good.Tecnical support is great i was talking with the guys and they replied whithin 15 hours.once he replied whithin a hour.has a protect case to put over zen.

Though it doesnt support flac/ogg

They should program a firmware to play ogg/flac they wouldn't even have to pay rights

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #14 – 2005-01-27 20:46:52

Quote

transferring music to and from the Karma.

[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=268143"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This cannot be done.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #15 – 2005-01-27 21:49:56

The iAudio M3L, when upgraded to current firmware does support FLAC. It also supports ID3 tags for MP3s, but currently seems to be missing OGG tag support. Honestly though, I don't rely on tags because it's simply so much easier to create a standard naming format (artist/year - album/tracknumber - artist - title.ext for me) and plop files in than to worry about all that tagging mumbo-jumbo.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #16 – 2005-01-28 00:24:23

Quote

Quote
transferring music to and from the Karma.
This cannot be done.

Sure it can.
In the Rio Music Manager, click on the Rio Karma icon. Then right-click on the artist/album/song you want to transfer and select "Save Taget As..."

You can also do it with Red Chair's Riorad Explorer:
Right-click>Copy To Computer...

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #17 – 2005-01-28 23:33:56

Quote

I also have an Xtra and was curious if you've done the usual troubleshooting steps to see if your player behaves.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=268389"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I did try all of the above steps. However, I am positive that the problem is hardware-related and not data/firmware related. However, I have decided to buy the Zen Xtra 30GB again for two reasons:

1) I loved it when it worked
2) The price has fallen so much that for the same money (using the gift certificate that CircuitCity is about to give me), I can buy a new Zen Xtra 30GB AND a new extended warranty (City Advantage Plan).

Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate the help.

Edit: See my next post

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #18 – 2005-01-30 00:28:34

Quote

The iAudio M3L, when upgraded to current firmware does support FLAC. It also supports ID3 tags for MP3s, but currently seems to be missing OGG tag support. Honestly though, I don't rely on tags because it's simply so much easier to create a standard naming format (artist/year - album/tracknumber - artist - title.ext for me) and plop files in than to worry about all that tagging mumbo-jumbo.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=268653"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The M3 with current firmware supports tags for ogg.

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #19 – 2005-02-24 01:42:50

Update:

I finally bought a Rio Karma and I absolutely love it!! . EVERYTHING about the Karma is so much more better then the Zen Xtra. I bought the Karma because at CircutiCity, at the time of my purchase, the Karma costed $5 more than a Zen Xtra. I decided to buy a Karma even though it was 10 GB less than my Zen Xtra because it had so much more to offer. Thanks for the input

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #20 – 2005-02-24 06:32:24

Quote

Update:

I finally bought a Rio Karma and I absolutely love it!! . EVERYTHING about the Karma is so much more better then the Zen Xtra. I bought the Karma because at CircutiCity, at the time of my purchase, the Karma costed $5 more than a Zen Xtra. I decided to buy a Karma even though it was 10 GB less than my Zen Xtra because it had so much more to offer. Thanks for the input
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276480"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Holy thread resurrection!

But yeah, the Karma is great. I love mine. Although, if I were on the market for a DAP today I would buy the 60GB iPod. The price drop put it right on the sweet zone, IHMO.

Anyone want to buy a mint-condition Karma? (just 4 battery cycles so far!)

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #21 – 2005-02-24 07:34:41

Quote

Quote
Update:

I finally bought a Rio Karma and I absolutely love it!! . EVERYTHING about the Karma is so much more better then the Zen Xtra. I bought the Karma because at CircutiCity, at the time of my purchase, the Karma costed $5 more than a Zen Xtra. I decided to buy a Karma even though it was 10 GB less than my Zen Xtra because it had so much more to offer. Thanks for the input
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276480"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Holy thread resurrection!

But yeah, the Karma is great. I love mine. Although, if I were on the market for a DAP today I would buy the 60GB iPod. The price drop put it right on the sweet zone, IHMO.

Anyone want to buy a mint-condition Karma? (just 4 battery cycles so far!)
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276511"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Trade it for a Zen Xtra

Which DAP tp buy?

Reply #22 – 2005-02-24 08:42:17

I can also confirm that iPod plays APS files well that were encoded with Lame 3.90 or 3.96 (I had some issues with Lame 3.93 APS).
Anyway, enjoy your product
Cheers, 4tired

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