Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: DVD Audio a future standard? (Read 8003 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DVD Audio a future standard?

In the future DVD audio is a promising medium, its audio fidelity is far beyond that of CD PCM audio.  I recently read a article explaining the basics of DVD audio.  On a single sided, single layered DVD, it can hold 2 hours of 6 channel audio at 96kHz, or 2 hours of stereo at 192kHz using meridian lossless packing, which is the only lossless compression available that can compress such complex audio at a 2 to 1 ratio.

Thats just an overview, read on DVD Audio FAQ?

What do you think of DVD audio? Will it be a standard? will compression similar to mp3, musepack, or vorbis be created for such massive formats?
\"You broke it!\"

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #1 –
AAC already supports 24bits depth and 96kHz.

I believe DVD Audio has as much probability to succeed as SACD. (Which, BTW, is backed up by Sony and Philips - nothing less than the companies that created the CD specs. (Red Book)).

Regards;

Roberto.

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #2 –
I debated this to myself awhile back. I couldn't decide between a Sony DVD player & a Toshiba.

They had virtually equal video specs, so I began looking at audio.

Sony=SACD
Toshiba=DVD Audio

Couldn't decide.

Then I was in best buy. They had quite a good selection of DVD Audio. Didn't see any SACD. I suppose they might have been mixed in with the standard CD's.

Anyway, given the nice large selection of DVD Audio, I decided to go with the Toshiba.

Could end up being like the old Beta VHS thing.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #3 –
I wonder if there is/will be built-in copy protection in these formats. If so, that could effectively kill the need for compression formats to support encoding such a massive bitstream.
The sky is blue.

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #4 –
For the time being, there is no copy possibility  , so there is no protection needed !
 

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #5 –
According to sales material from Sony, the content on SACD is protected/encryptet.

I am pretty sure the same thing goes for DVD-Audio. I think they are just DVD discs with different content than DVD-Video. I might be wrong.

I read somewhere (believe it was chesky.com) that no SACD or DVD-Audio players come with a (high res) digital out. You have to use the DAC in the player. If this is true, it will be kind of difficult to make copies.

An interesting point: DVD-Audio discs can probably be ripped using a normal DVD-ROM drive. We just need someone to crack the protection.

But SACD cannot be read on a computer. With no high-res digital out, they are virtually impossible to copy.

I believe that one format has to die before the other will prevail. And I must confess I am betting on SACD. Reason: Sony has stopped selling normal CD players (except for the cheapest models). If you buy a Sony CD player today, you get a SACD player. But most DVD players sold today are DVD-Video.

I am not interested in either format before I can play files on my computer. My tape/record/disc-changing days are over.

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #6 –
...who needs another format?

i`m an musican, and for me the primitive Audio-CD sounds very good. lossy formats like mp3, ogg, mpc, mp2, aac... are nice formats to send music over the net for preview hearing. i also have respect for the work of dibrom on lame and andre buschmann for the work on mpc codec. but for me, and many other musicans, the 16/24 bit 44.1Hz stereo pcm format are the standard for audio. is there a need for another format who sounds "better" ? or is there a need to build an format which not to play/rip on your computer?

i think the DVD-audio and SACD are just for high_end_hardcore_user who want to pay €300,- for an music-cd, and €30 000,- for an stereo to hear them. in my eyes there is no need for these formats.

Dezibel

...sorry for my poor english. does anyone understand german here?

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #7 –
Dezibel, I agree there should be no need for a new format.

But there will be if they continue screwing up (compressing) new CD releases.

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #8 –
There is always room for improvement.

The format I want is the one that allows me to have every Dave Matthews Band release on one disk, without lossy compression.

So, my vote goes for a format that allows more data, not better audio quality.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #9 –
i'm agree that a CD full with all albums of a band is a fine thing for portable players...

i also have an mp3/cd portable and like it to hear all dream theater albums while i sit on bike and drive to the woods. i also agree that a DVD/blue_ray_disc full of these albums in lossless quality where a nice thing to archive my music. but the reality is that very good formats like flac, monkey's audio and mpc [-insane] never will play on an hardware player. there is only one format that can be played in car, portable and stereo at home, and you can go with your CD's to all your friends and hear your music in lossless quality ;-)

Dezibel

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #10 –
I don't think discs with plenty are something you will see in the shop anytime soon. You might see some empty discs you can fill yourself, but the complete works of an artist does not sell well.

Just look at TV series on VHS. We all know there can be 4-5 hours on a VHS tape. And yet there are seldom more than 1.5-2 hours on a tape.

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #11 –
Quote
Originally posted by Dezibel
flac, monkey's audio and mpc [-insane] never will play on an hardware player. Dezibel


Correct. I wan't implying that we should use any of those formats.

I'd like to see us be able to store audio in the same format as CD audio, but on disks with 20x the storage capacity.

So, I guess the audio format doesn't need to change. The storage media needs to improve.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #12 –
I don't think the quality of these new formats will benefit high end users. Their sound is already perfect with CDs.

The question is not what format sounds better, it is what format sounds better at a given price !

If, after prices have fallen down, DVDA or SACD players at 300 € sound better than CD player at 300 €, then no problem, I'll go for them.

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #13 –
Nice... If you are a bat  .

Cheers,

Ookie.

Quote
Originally posted by Beerbaron
What do you think of DVD audio? 
"Stop making me older, start making me new"

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #14 –
DVD Audio's launch was delayed a year because it used the same (cracked) encryption as DVD Video.  So....it is definitely encrypted but differently than DVD Video. 

With such massive data rates (24 bit PCM @ 192kHz) I would expected a lossy compression could really get some impressive ratios - I would assume much of the massive data rate would be below the perceptual thresholds and discardable.  24/96 would probably compress quite nicely.
Was that a 1 or a 0?

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #15 –
it might just be me, but i cannot see record companies selling a cd full of an artists work on one disk for a reasonable price considering the speed that they can duplicate cds, and the price that we pay already.  i cant imagine the price.  hmm, isnt it funny that tapes cost more than cds?  ah thats another story.

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #16 –
Quote
Originally posted by c-prompt
it might just be me, but i cannot see record companies selling a cd full of an artists work on one disk


Unfortunately, you are probably right. If on the other hand, I had a CD burner that could burn 10GB disks, then it wouldn't matter what the record companies sell or don't sell. I would make my own.

Getting back to the original topic of SACD vs. DVD Audio. My solution is this:

Since most people I know have both a DVD player and a CD player, the solution is simple.

A DVD player with DVD Audio support and right next to it a CD player with SACD support.

This works for me because I have never used my DVD player as my primary CD player. They just don't seem to have as many functions and the ease of use that a dedicated CD unit has IMHO.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #17 –
Quote
Originally posted by indybrett
Getting back to the original topic of SACD vs. DVD Audio. My solution is this:

Since most people I know have both a DVD player and a CD player, the solution is simple.

A DVD player with DVD Audio support and right next to it a CD player with SACD support.


From a hardware manufacturers point of view you are indeed the perfect consumer ;)

But your solution will not work for me, as I already have a laserdisc/DVD-video combi-player.

Also your solution cost a lot of money, especially if you go for high qualiy units. But if money is no problem, go for this SACD/DVD-A combi from Pioneer ($6,000):
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/audiophileaud...oneerdvax10.htm

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #18 –
Quote
Originally posted by Annuka
From a hardware manufacturers point of view you are indeed the perfect consumer
[/url]


Maybe, but there are plenty more like me in the +30 age bracket. A very good DVD player can be had for $300. Mine was $250.

Likewise, the Sony 5 disc SACD player model #SON SCDCE775 can be bought for $199.

That's a far cry from $6000. Now if you want to say that these are cheap components, I would say that there are people out there who would buy a $15,000 turntable. I'm not one of them.

Here we are talking less than $500 for two very capable units.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #19 –
I am not one who would buy that $6,000 player either. But I think it is important to know of the existance of such a product. It clearly shows that the hardware manufactures cannot agree on a standard and are using the consumers to experiment on. Not buying their products is the only way to convince them stick to one standard.

Also, I do infact consider a $200-300 cd player to be in the low end of the price scale. But I find the purchase price of little interests. It is the average price per year over the player's lifetime I am interested in. When I was younger I replaced my $200-$300 units every 1-3 years. That was a lot of work and I  were never quite satisfied. My current system with a $500 CD player is almost 4 years old. It plays perfectly and I have no plans of upgrading any units -- unless they break beyond repair.

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #20 –
I feel that DVD Audio will become a new standard, Sony can make as many cd players as they want that supports SACD, but the fact is, they are the only one making hardware for it.  When it comes to DVD Audio just about every company is making there DVD players dvd audio compatible, all except sony.  Which is sonys loss.  Another point is that cd players are just not selling like they use too, at the moment, DVD players are THE-DEFACTO hardware to buy. 

Also, if i wanted to go out right now and find some albums in DVD-Audio format, (they would be shit) i could.  If i wanted to go out and find some albums in SACD format, well, i would be shit out of luck because they are hard to find.
\"You broke it!\"

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #21 –
What he said
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #22 –
Quote
Originally posted by Dezibel
but the reality is that very good formats like flac, monkey's audio and mpc [-insane] never will play on an hardware player.


Not true.  FLAC is supported in the PhatBox / Kenwood MusicKeg and more are in the works.

http://phatbox.sixpak.org/

DVD Audio and/or SACD may be it for Joe Consumer but the cat is out of the box when it comes to digital content.  The technology elite will now and forever have better access to content because of free formats, computers and p2p networks, and abundant hardware power.

Josh

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #23 –
The I don't THINK the answer is a new format, I THINK it is a new medium. Isn't everyone tired of these CD-sized discs (DVD, SACD, DVD-A, and of course CDs). A medium that would be even more compact (in size) and versatille than a cd-sized disc; and that would be interchangable between PCs, audio stereo systems, video systems, portable music (mp3) players, game consoles, mobile phones, anything that could have a real use for it. Uhmmm it would be cool! (But I bet if Hollywood and RIAA got behind it, there would be software and hardware copy-protection schemes left and right, and that would reeeaaaaly suck big time)

DVD Audio a future standard?

Reply #24 –
Sounds like Iomega Click! disks. They are the size of a matchbook but only hold around 10-20MB of info, I think.