Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: [TOS #6] Upsampling DSD with Sox | Was: "Foorbar bug?" (Read 3871 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

[TOS #6] Upsampling DSD with Sox | Was: "Foorbar bug?"

Hi, I've looked everywhere for an answer to this a problem I'm having with foobar, but no luck. It's with upsampling from dsd to dsd (64 to 128 in my case).. It seems than that when the sox plugin is installed, and its upsampling set to a multiple of 48k, there is severe distortion in the output. However when the sox resample rate is set to a multiple of 44.1 or the sox plugin is removed, then it upsamples ok. My question is: why should it matter? Why should the sox plugin be involved in any way in a dsd to dsd upsample? It's inconvenient, because I have to remove sox whevever I play dsd64 files (upsampling to dsd128), and then reinstall sox again when I play pcm. Can anyone duplicate this? Hard to believe this hasn't been a problem before. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Re: Foorbar bug?

Reply #1 –
Why are you upsampling dsd files?
TAPE LOADING ERROR

Re: [TOS #6] Upsampling DSD with Sox | Was: "Foorbar bug?"

Reply #2 –
How are you upsampling?  With ASIO Proxy 0.8.2 I set the DSD to DSD to something other than none and set the output to DSD128 and it doesn't matter if I have a sox upsampler in the DSP chain or not.  I get DSD128 for either DSD64 or DSD128 inputs.  (Oops, never mind I use the sox mod2 instead of the sox mod upsampler, but in any case why not use the sox mod or sox mod2 so you can choose which frequencies to upsample?)

Re: [TOS #6] Upsampling DSD with Sox | Was: "Foorbar bug?"

Reply #3 –
Quote from: tedsmith on
How are you upsampling?  With ASIO Proxy 0.8.2 I set the DSD to DSD to something other than none and set the output to DSD128 and it doesn't matter if I have a sox upsampler in the DSP chain or not.  I get DSD128 for either DSD64 or DSD128 inputs.  (Oops, never mind I use the sox mod2 instead of the sox mod upsampler, but in any case why not use the sox mod or sox mod2 so you can choose which frequencies to upsample?)

I'm doing the same thing as you. My dac shows DSD128 when playing DSD64 files, as it should with upsampling. However, with sox or sox mod 2 installed, I get severe distortion from the line-out when I upsample DSD64 files AND sox is installed AND the upsampling rate is set to a multiple of 48K. It seems to me that sox (as a PCM upsampler) should not be involved at all in DSD to DSD upsampling. BTW, with sox I use a 384k rate instead of 352.8k rate because my dac, for some reason, locks much better at 384k, and I get clean audio with no drop-outs. This doesn't happen at 352.8k.

Also, I just did a test with the SSRC upsampler and it does the same thing, so it seems to be a foobar bug and not a sox bug. Hoping someone else can duplicate this.

Re: [TOS #6] Upsampling DSD with Sox | Was: "Foorbar bug?"

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Rollin on
Quote from: jeffwunder on
so it seems to be a foobar bug and not a sox bug.
So it seems to be foo_input_sacd or ASIOProxy bug and you better report it to https://sourceforge.net/p/sacddecoder/bugs/?source=navbar , because author not reads hydrogenaudio.

Ok,thanks.

BTW, further testing shows that it happens when playing DSD64 files with any installed PCM resampler set to a multiple of 48k, even without upsampling to DSD128.

Re: [TOS #6] Upsampling DSD with Sox | Was: "Foorbar bug?"

Reply #7 –
Quote from: jeffwunder on
Quote from: hlloyge on
Why are you upsampling dsd files?

DSD64 upsampled to DSD128 sounds significantly better to my ears.
That's just placebo effect. Upsampling does not add anything that wasn't already there. Upsampling for the purposes of editing is another story, but you don't really gain anything if you're just doing it for listening.

Re: [TOS #6] Upsampling DSD with Sox | Was: "Foorbar bug?"

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Zarggg on
Quote from: jeffwunder on
Quote from: hlloyge on
Why are you upsampling dsd files?

DSD64 upsampled to DSD128 sounds significantly better to my ears.
That's just placebo effect. Upsampling does not add anything that wasn't already there. Upsampling for the purposes of editing is another story, but you don't really gain anything if you're just doing it for listening.

Of course upsampling adds something that wasn't there, and can also modify what was there. There are sophisticated wave shaping algorithms at work. If doesn't sound any different, then why would developers go to the trouble to add it to foobar?  To me, DSD64 to DSD128 is more spacious, has a better soundstage, and everything sparkles a little more. You need high-resolving headphones to hear the difference, which I have. Might also be that the dac hardware is better at DSD128, I don't know.

Re: [TOS #6] Upsampling DSD with Sox | Was: "Foorbar bug?"

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Brazil2 on
Quote from: jeffwunder on
Of course upsampling adds something that wasn't there
Of course not, obviously.

Quote from: jeffwunder on
Might also be that the dac hardware is better at DSD128, I don't know.
Maybe.
But upsampling itself doesn't add anything by its own.

Okaaaaaay. I seem to have stumbled upon some strange anti-upsampling cult from the hinterlands. Sorry if my foobar upsampling offends you.

Re: [TOS #6] Upsampling DSD with Sox | Was: "Foorbar bug?"

Reply #11 –
Perhaps a more neutral way of looking at things is that if you upsample in software before your DAC you are really comparing the idiosyncrasies of the software upsampler to the upsampler your DAC would have used.  Since almost all DAC chips carefully choose filters that use the least resources there's a chance that a software upsampler will have better (or worse) implementations of the filters.  Also since there's no particular filter that is more correct than all others, the software and the hardware filters may have chosen to preserve different features of the inputs - e.g. filter amplitude response vs. time accuracy.  The situation is much more complicated with DSD upsampling where there's no standard filter cutoff or filter slope or output S/N ratio, etc. and a sigma delta modulator is essentially a chaotic process.  It's quite conceivable that the differences in noise shaping choices will affect any non-linearities in differing down stream hardware differently.