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Topic: Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice. (Read 7389 times) previous topic - next topic
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Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum.

I have an minor sound issue on my PC i'll try to describe the best i can.

When i play a system sound (like testing left/right speaker/headphone in control panel or my sound card-s control panel), i can hear a short silent "clip" just before the sound is played and sometimes it also appears after a sound is played. It sounds like a very short crackle, not very loud but is clearly noticeable. Pressing the "Test" button on my control panel/sound/speaker properties/advanced sounds like: clip ta da dan clip ta da dan clip

My setup: Asus Xonar DG soundcard, optical output connected to Matrix m stage dac, connected to separate Matrix m stage headphone amp with AKG Q701 headphones.

Sound in pc control panel and the sound card contol panel is set to 44.1 / 16 bit, 2 channels.

In pc control panel sound settings I can set the sound going through my sound card (so i can use the dolby features) or i can set it through spdif pass-through option.
In either case, the issue is audible.

A weird thing i noticed is, when i use a program like foobar (using direct sound) for the first time after I boot my pc, after playing and then stopping/pausing the song, the issue seems to disappear.

I have no such issues during music playback or while playing games. It's all good at that department so this is quite a minor issue, yet annoying to me. It only happens before (and sometimes after) a particular sound is played and not during the playback.

Has anyone experienced similar issues?
Any advice on the matter is mostly appreciated.

Regards!

Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Reply #1 –
Quote
My setup: Asus Xonar DG soundcard, optical output connected to Matrix m stage dac


Synchronization/connection noise your DG or/and DAC can't handle well (maybe those test tones are played in a loop and the signal path gets opened/closed before/after each loop -> needs re-connection/re-synchronization))?
Why it does not happen with foobar; maybe the signal path is open all the time -> no re-synchronization/re-connection needed ....

Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Reply #2 –
That makes sense to me. Despite the fact i am not an expert in this department, i was thinking the same thing.
Other then trying other (usb, coax) connection, is there something else i can do?

Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Reply #3 –
The initial spdif synchronization can cause clicks, depending how the receiver is designed.

If your chain provides stream mixing (i.e. no exclusive access or single-stream asio), you can try playing a long silent wav (zero samples) along your regular audio player. That way the soundcard will be kept active all the time. If it works, we can find a way to do that automatically.

Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Reply #4 –
Thanks for your replies.

You identified the issue. In order to verify it, i tried plugging my headphones into Xonar-s analog headphone output. No clicks there. Just in case, i switched my headphones back and forth a few times only to confirm it. Therefore I think it's reasonable to assume that the synchronization issue of my Matrix m stage dac is the reason causing the clicks.

I must say i am not pleased with the issue, no matter how someone might consider it trivial, simply because;

Whilst many debate if the differences between dac-s are even in the human audible range, one pays a reasonable amount of money for a device that has a fault that is without doubt audible. Many low cost / on-board devices do not have such a flaw.

Maybe it's only audible on my device, or perhaps it's a universal flaw on that model, it yet has to be determined.

Again, thanks for your effort, it has been helpful.
Regards!

P.S. I tried the usb connection, and the issue is less pronounced, but still there.
Regarding your suggestion of playing a "silent" file alongside, as I've mentioned, opening foobar in my case solves the problem to the level that i can't perceive it anymore. Thanks for the tip though.

Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Reply #5 –
Recently i loaded up SineGen program to equalize my headphones. Upon pressing "Power" button in the program, the amount of clips i was getting was unbearably high. The sound played by SineGen should be a smooth wave. Bypassing the matrix dac by using my Xonars headphone output i didn't get a single clipped sound.

I eventually got it to work by using foobar2000 on minimum (silent) volume in the background, but despite it i had occasional clipping sound in sequences so i needed to reset SineGen&foobar.

I guess i just have to learn to deal with the issue.

Regards!


Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Reply #6 –
Quote
Whilst many debate if the differences between dac-s are even in the human audible range, one pays a reasonable amount of money for a device that has a fault that is without doubt audible. Many low cost / on-board devices do not have such a flaw.
I think it's "easier" if the DAC is built-into the computer (or if you have a USB connection) because the driver can send control data to set-up the format, mute the audio, set the volume, etc. 

With S/PDIF, you can only send audio data, and otherwise the software can't communicate with the DAC.  But, it might be possible to design a DAC that mutes until it gets valid data and has determined the format, or if it gets incomplete data.   

Quote
...the amount of clips i was getting was unbearably high.
Just FYI -  A clip is different from a "click"...    You are hearing a click.    Clipping is distorted flat-topped waves caused by trying to go "louder" than the digital maximum of a particular format, or for example by trying to get 110 Watts from a 100W amplifier.

Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Reply #7 –
laklozoon, I suggest that you look into deferred procedure call latency There is a tool that tests for it but I don't know if it has been updated to recent versions of Windows: DPC Latency Checker
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Reply #8 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
I think it's "easier" if the DAC is built-into the computer (or if you have a USB connection) because the driver can send control data to set-up the format, mute the audio, set the volume, etc.


I tried using USB connection with SineGen program and i must say it is significantly better. When i start it, I can only hear the inititial click 

@ Thad E Ginathom;

I will take a look at it as soon as I have more time, thanks!

Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
laklozoon, I suggest that you look into deferred procedure call latency There is a tool that tests for it but I don't know if it has been updated to recent versions of Windows: DPC Latency Checker


It's unlikely this has to do anything with the OP's problem. Most likely what we're dealing with here is a piece of badly-designed boutique "audiophile" DAC that crackles when it starts playing a stream, like cheap amplifiers from 30 years ago that thumped when you turned them on.

Personally I would return it and ask for a full refund because it is obviously defective.

Clipping/crackling noise on PC sounds, need advice.

Reply #10 –
I apologize for not going through the thorough process of testing before i posted here.
Obviously i made a mistake of misinforming you guys about the facts of this matter.

What i did (which in turn implies a different conclusion) is;

1.

- Plugged Xonar DG analog output in INPUT 1 of my headphone amplifier (bypassing Matrix DAC by using the one on the sound card)
- Plugged optical Xonar DG output into my Matrix m stage DAC, connected to  INPUT 2 of my headphone amplifier

The volume of both was set to approximately the same (although it has little to do with the matter).

The result i got from both dac-s was pretty much the same (both resulted in excessive clicking noise in SineGen program & Windows). So it seems i misinformed you by telling you the Xonar DAC wasn't causing any clicks.

In order to determine if the problem was indeed caused by my Xonar DG sound card (in turn excluding my Matrix DAC as the cause),  I did the following:

2.

Disabled Xonar DG sound card in windows & enabled Realtek on-board audio in Bios.

Plugged analog & optical Realtek outputs in my headphone amp in the same manner as i did above, using the Xonar DG.

The result i got in SineGen, by using Realtek analog&optical outputs, was a smooth wave with no clicks during play.
I did get clicks on starting & ending SineGen-s wave sound playback, but not during the playback (not a single click, unlike when i used Xonar DG).

A subtle difference in using analog & digital Realtek output was: (besides the fact that Realtek-s digital output has much less audible noise)

- By using analog Realtek output i don't get the click at the start of playback, only at the end.
- By using digital Realtek output i get the click at the start & at the end of sound playback.

I apologize for misinformation i caused in this matter and I will be editing my initial post soon (i hope it's allowed), so my post does not have a negative impact on Matrix product, by proclaiming their product defective.

On the side note, I had the opportunity to compare Xonar DG-s "cheap" DAC and my Matrix DAC. I only had to press the switch on my headphone amp to switch between 2 inputs (DAC-s) on the same volume level. I unlikely admit, no matter how hard i tried, i wasn't able to hear the noticeable difference (and i paid good $$ for that DAC). I was using FLAC formats with reasonably good headphone amp (Matrix m stage amp) and decent headphones (AKG Q701).
Only difference i managed to hear wasn't in sound quality but in the noise level when i crank up my headphone amp to max in silence. I cant hear that noise while the drivers are rolling.

Regards!