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Topic: Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning (Read 25676 times) previous topic - next topic
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Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Ed Seedhouse on
Quote from: andy o on
I meant that with microphones on headsets you do come into problems with impedance.


And what would those problems be?  Dynamic microphones have a fairly benign impedance, just like dynamic speakers.  After all they are basically identical.

If I'm not mistaken, the problems I've run into both with mics connected through an adapter and with headsets on my iPod Touch is extremely low volume or the iPod just not detecting it and using its own built-in mic instead are due to impedance.

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #26 –
Quote from: RonaldDumsfeld on
The next step will hopefully be to include a DSP chip into the on-board DAC assembly.


This is pointless given that the host device will be an actual programmable CPU.

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #27 –
Quote from: skamp on
I thought of that, but you don't need Lightning for it, except maybe to draw power from the iPhone. My Bose QuietComfort 15s are such headphones, except they work with pretty much any source with a headphone jack, for the reasons you've mentionned. But yeah, it needs its own AAA battery.


Your Bose headphones require a AAA battery for their noise canceling capabilities.  There are plenty of wired headphones, without batteries, that not only feature a microphone but also in-line controls that fit within Apple's specifications.  All of these use the standard 3.5mm jack and work with iDevices made in (and after) 2008.  Unless Apple wants to come out with something like a pair of noise canceling headphones without a battery, which is entirely possible as the Beats Studio headphones also require a power input for them to work, I don't really see what they are going to do and I definitely don't think it will replace the 3.5mm connector (at least not within a couple year period).

Quote from: andy o on
If I'm not mistaken, the problems I've run into both with mics connected through an adapter and with headsets on my iPod Touch is extremely low volume or the iPod just not detecting it and using its own built-in mic instead are due to impedance.


In my many years of using Apple devices (starting with a 3G iPod in 2003), the problems with headphones that featured built-in microphones stemmed from either a faulty setup or the use of an extension cable.  For example, I have a LifeProof case for my iPhone 5.  If I want to use the headphone jack, I have to use LifeProof's extension cable as the case is too thick for me to directly plug anything in.  My iPhone then has issues recognizing the headphones (they're actually Bose FreeStyle earbuds), their built-in controls, and the microphone.  I have to completely power cycle my iPhone before it all works properly.  However, whenever my iPhone isn't relying on the LifeProof extension cable, my earbuds (along with the SIE2i Bose earbuds I previously used and the Apple earbuds) work fine.  Earbuds that continually have issues with my iPhone (extension cable or not) are either physically damaged, just cheap, and/or are poorly made.  When I experience a problem using an extension cable, the earbuds work fine but I have to adjust their volume using my iPhone.  The in-line remote and microphone don't work either.

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #28 –
Quote from: andy o on
If I'm not mistaken, the problems I've run into both with mics connected through an adapter and with headsets on my iPod Touch is extremely low volume or the iPod just not detecting it and using its own built-in mic instead are due to impedance.


And your evidence that your problems are caused by impedance mismatches is ... ?
Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #29 –
Quote from: Ed Seedhouse on
Quote from: andy o on
If I'm not mistaken, the problems I've run into both with mics connected through an adapter and with headsets on my iPod Touch is extremely low volume or the iPod just not detecting it and using its own built-in mic instead are due to impedance.


And your evidence that your problems are caused by impedance mismatches is ... ?

Getting a transformer made it work?

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #31 –
Quote from: andy o on
Quote from: Ed Seedhouse on

And your evidence that your problems are caused by impedance mismatches is ... ?

Getting a transformer made it work?


And how do you know that a one to one transformer wouldn't have worked as well?  This problem could easily be caused by ground loops and any transformer would work by isolating the output from the ground loop.  I have a one to one transformer (ground loop isolator) on my computer and it works wonders.  You might well be ascribing a better result to the impedance transformation when it's really just acting as a ground loop isolator.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #32 –
Digital headphones allow better control over SPLs that listeners are exposed to. Public health might benefit.

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #34 –
There is one more reason for such a step that should be taken into consideration:

devices are getting thinner and thinner and the lightning port is MUCH thinner than the usual headphone-jack.

Look at the side of the current IPad to see what I mean.

And: it omits one port, space that can be used for something else. Not unimportant in more and more crammed devices.

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Stephan37 on
devices are getting thinner and thinner and the lightning port is MUCH thinner than the usual headphone-jack.
That's what the German heise.de site recently wrote too, and it makes sense.
On the other hand, a 3.5mm jack is pretty simple with its few contacts, and there are too many products using it, so I don't think it will die out anytime soon. Should Apple really decide to dump a 3.5mm jack, they will probably provide an adapter (with a built-in DAC I guess?) for all the users who still want to use the 3.5mm jack. That way they can still slim down their products, but still have the backwards compatibility.

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #36 –
Quote from: probedb on
Quote from: Kees de Visser on
Digital headphones allow better control over SPLs that listeners are exposed to. Public health might benefit.
You mean a volume control?
Almost. A volume control adjusts the voltage of the (analog) output, but it depends on the sensitivity of the headphones how much SPL is presented at the eardrum. If the DAC is integrated in the headphones, it will be possible to know the relationship between "digital signal level" and "SPL at eardrum".
The European Commission has published recommendations in 2009 for limited output of mobile audio devices, but I'm sure they knew it was impossible to control. Until now, it seems.
Quote
The new proposals – the mandate for new safety standards (2009)
The mandate, proposed by the European Commission with 27 Member States, covers all personal music players and mobile phones with a music playing function. It provides that:

Safe exposure levels shall be the "default" settings on products. The mandate does not prescribe specific technical solutions in order not to stifle the capacity of industry to innovate. Instead it requires manufactures to provide that the default settings for normal usage meet safety requirements.
The mandate makes it clear that safe use depends on exposure time and volume levels. At 80 dB(A), exposure should be limited to 40 hours/week. At 89 dB(A) exposure should not exceed 5 hours/week.

The safe exposure levels defined above shall be the default settings on products. Higher exposure levels can be permitted, provided that they have been intentionally selected by the user and the product incorporates a reliable means to inform the user of the risks.

Adequate warnings for consumers on the risks involved, and on ways to avoid them, including the situation when the original set of earphones is replaced with another type and this causes higher unsafe sound levels. The mandate is not prescriptive in terms of how this is done. Industry solutions could include for example – labels or digital information on the screen.

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #37 –
I like the lightning connector because it is slim, has no up or down, and the pins simply reassign themselves depending on how you insert the plug. When I first heard about this prior to owning it I thought it was a trivially important feature that I didn't care about, one way or the other, but now that I've had it for a few years I realize how frustrating it is to plug into most other jacks, having to examine it prior to insertion, with adequate lighting, or you risk breaking it if you use the Braille method.

What I don't like is that the lightning connector is proprietary to Apple due to its internal authentication chip they hardly even admit exists.[I've mentioned it to numerous Apple store empoyees and they don't even know what I'm talking about.] This makes it harder for third party companies to use the configuration without paying for it. It has been hacked though, supposedly. 

Will companies like Sennheiser, Etymotic, etc. buy into this new standard, though? If they do then I'm all for it, if not, then the kludge adaptor that Apple will provide will be necessary for me and unwanted due to the price and bulk.

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #38 –
Quote from: mzil on
I like the lightning connector because it is slim, has no up or down, and the pins simply reassign themselves depending on how you insert the plug. When I first heard about this prior to owning it I thought it was a trivially important feature that I didn't care about, one way or the other, but now that I've had it for a few years I realize how frustrating it is to plug into most other jacks, having to examine it prior to insertion, with adequate lighting, or you risk breaking it if you use the Braille method.

Fortunately, USB 3.1 will be too.

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #39 –
Philips Fidelio M2L headphones connect to iPhone and iPad via Lightning connector for 24-bit DAC sound

Quote
Philips is making the bold claim that its Fidelio M2L headphones are the first on the market that can connect to an Apple iPhone or iPod via the Lightning connector. For this reason they're able to deliver high-quality 24-bit Digital to Analogue Conversion (DAC) and amplification in the headphones themselves.


Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #40 –
And, as predicted, the new iPhones still feature a standard mini jack.

Some stupid and/or sensationalist journalists made up a story about Apple abandoning the 3.6 mm jack, some clever marketers of a third party jumped at the opportunity to launch a product nobody needs.
Every night with my star friends / We eat caviar and drink champagne
Sniffing in the VIP area / We talk about Frank Sinatra
Do you know Frank Sinatra? / He's dead

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #41 –
Intel has a monopoly on TB controllers. Why would Intel give permission to ARM or even build TB controllers for them?
Also, TB requires PCIe x4 which no ARM chip offers, afaik.

There are other reason ... but you'll find TB only in notebooks and desktops for now.
"I hear it when I see it."

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #42 –
Quote from: Kees de Visser on
Digital headphones allow better control over SPLs that listeners are exposed to. Public health might benefit.


There is a large and growing market for devices to circumvent the current methods for controlling the SPLs that listeners are exposed to. They are called outboard headphone amps.

The reason for this is that there are enough listeners whose enjoyment for better or worse depends on listening at SPLs that some consider unhealthful.

It is pretty clear that they won't work for headphones with digital inputs. Is that a bug or a feature?

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #43 –
Quote from: xnor on
Intel has a monopoly on TB controllers. Why would Intel give permission to ARM or even build TB controllers for them?


Lightning != Thunderbolt

Why are you talking about Thunderbolt?

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #44 –
Ah sorry, I confused the two.
"I hear it when I see it."

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #45 –
They are confusing indeed. It's annoying.

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #46 –
So how does Lightning make sense with USB 3(.1) and type C connectors coming?
"I hear it when I see it."

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #47 –
Quote from: xnor on
So how does Lightning make sense with USB 3(.1) and type C connectors coming?


Money and vendor lock-in…

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #48 –
they do everything sony did years before. but when at every turn sony was booed for it's shameless proprietary stuff nobody wanted, apple keeps being "acclaimed" for being different and inovative...
it's incredible what propaganda and white paint can do to improve how we see iron chains.

I'm sure it started with an engineer saying he could save some space if we got rid of the jack plug, but then, apple.

 

Apple and "digital" headphones via Lightning

Reply #49 –
Seems like some heavy anti-Apple bias is at work here. Apple's Lightning connector predates this future USB 3.1 connector quite a bit.