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Topic: Home Network (Read 9733 times) previous topic - next topic
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Home Network

Does anyone here have an external USB NTL Cable modem.  I want to share the internet connection with the other 3 PCs in the house.  The problem is that the NTL Cable modem only allows 1 ip address.  I have been researching on this and have found a solution.  The solution is to get a NAT compatible router which sits between the PC and the modem. i.e. the cable modem connects to the router and all the PCs then connect to the router.

Does anyone know of any low cost routers which can do this, and which can be connected to anNTL Cable modem?

So far, I have found the  Linksys BEFSR41 Router and 4 Port Switch, which looks very promising.  Has anyone else got this configuration of hardware.

I will be providing a picture of the back of the cable modem as soon as I can (probably in a few hours).

Thanks for any info

[EDIT]  Here are some pics of the Cable modem!  [/EDIT]

Home Network

Reply #1 –
Do you only have USB connection to the cable modem? I use a Motorola cable modem (supplied by NTL) that has both USB and Ethernet connection (standard RJ45). I run 2 PCs thru that with one providing Internet sharing to the other. The 2 PCs are connected with a crossover cable and the one providing the sharing just uses the patch cable into the modem. This works absolutely fine, except that the PC providing the sharing must, of course, be on for the sharing to function.

I was looking at doing something similar to what you're planning because I want to add a third PC, so I'd be interested in knowing what you end up using and how well it works.

Home Network

Reply #2 –
Yes, it has both.  Currently its connected directly to the PC using the usb cable.  I think I am supposed to connect the cable modem to the router using the ethernet port at the back (check out pics in first post).  Then all the PCs are connected to the router (I think).  This way, the internet is independed, i.e. no PC has to be left on to use the internet on another PC.

Home Network

Reply #3 –
Hey Jen

I do a fair bit of work with networks and although I don't know the NTL one, but my experience is that ethernet is better to work with than through the USB.
If your machines have an ethernet card it is usually easy to get a switch (or even a hub will do) and network them all together - that is how mine are connected at home.
Are you sure that you need a router? I am currently running on DSL but I did the same configuration on cable (with one IP) and it works fine - that you get a ethernet switch with an Upload port which connects to your modem and then plug in you computers into the other (download) ports.
I have a Netgear 5-port Fast Ethernet switch (FS105) which does the job nicely. I can have 4 computers with simultaneous internet connection, each an independant connection, and all computers networked as well.

If you can advert getting a router I would suggest you try this way first to see if it works. Setting up a router and getting all programs to behave with it can be a monumental task at times.

There are other methods of connecting a network to the internet but these all usually require you have one gateway computer on all the time. Even if your computer is silent you may not want it on all the time. With the switch mention I can have connections independant of whether the other computers have power. I think that this also might be a cheaper alternative to getting a router as well if it works on your system

Which OS are you running on these machines?

Home Network

Reply #4 –
The Linksys router/switches are excellent and pretty low cost (at least here). Connect the coax cable to the cable modem, get a ethernet cable from the cable modem to the router, and then connect all your computers (or xboxes, etc) to the router with ethernet (this means you will need an ethernet card for your computer since you are currently connecting via usb).


You can set up the linksys to do dhcp for devices. I currently have the wireless version of the linksys router so I have my computers and xbox connected via ethernet and use static ips (static ips in the NAT range of the linksys 192.168.1.xxx) and then I set the range of dhcp to above those and then when wireless connections come in they are given an ip automatically (like my laptop or friends laptops)
"Droplets of Yes and No, in an ocean of Maybe"

Home Network

Reply #5 –
Quote
So far, I have found the  Linksys BEFSR41 Router and 4 Port Switch, which looks very promising.  Has anyone else got this configuration of hardware.

I have 2 comps sharing a cable connection on a LinkSys BEFSR41 with no problems using Cat5 UTP.  USB works too, but there is less throughput.

Home Network

Reply #6 –
Just wanted to add another vote approving the Linksys BEFSR41. It works great and is very configurable yet easy to use.
Sorry, I have nothing witty to say here.

Home Network

Reply #7 –
@ TwoJ - I have ethernet cards on 3 of the 4 PCs, which are connected to each other via cat 5 cables.  With this simple home network I can share everthing (drives, printers, disks etc), but can not share the internet connection.

I have the following PCs/OSs

PC 1 - Windows 2k Pro - Silent - XP1900 @ 1600
PC 2 - Windows XP Pro - Noisy - Athlon 1000 @ 1400
PC 3 - Windows XP Pro - Noisy - Duron 1000 @ 1000
PC 4 - Windows 2k Pro - Noisy - PII 233 @ 233

I did a quick search to try and find a solution, and found that the internet sharing feature will not work with NTLs cable modem (Its broadband).  After doing a little more searching, I found that an NAT compatible router is required to get the single ip address to work with all 4 PCs.

So, basically what I found out is that an NAT router is connected to the cable modem via cat 5, which does something with the ip allowing all PCs to have internet access. 

@ wynlyndd - The lowest price I have found in the UK for the LinkSys BEFSR41 is £49GBP ($79.98USD).  Sadly I have no Xboxes to connect to the network.  Also, how good is the wireless version, is it as fast as the LinkSys BEFSR41 and how much does it cost, please tell me more about it, or a link/model number would be great!

@ pOwder - Excellent, you have the LinkSys BEFSR41.  How have you got it connected up.  Is your cable modem connected directly to the router and all PCs connected to the router.  Does this give you independent internet connection on all PCs?

@ flloyd - Do you have the NTL cable modem, like the 1 in the pic?

Thanks for all the replies

Home Network

Reply #8 –
Well my ISP also says that I need a router to have more than one PC connected but the truth is that everything works great with just a switch. I'd have to check the prices but I think the switch might be about the same price as your BEFSR41 so you might just be better off with that. But if you do have a hub or switch (as long as it has that uplink port) you could give it a try.

The NAT - Network Address Translation - basically creates a subnet from your IP. Each computer then has a different subnet mask which allows the router to determine which packets are recieved and delivered to which computer on the subnet(LAN)

Just because your ISP or somewhere else says you need a router don't take it as absolute truth - at home I run on just a switch and at work I have a router. As I said there are broadband internet sharing software which work with any type of connection such as browsegate, Winroute pro, etc, but they are not as convient as a hardware setup.

Home Network

Reply #9 –
My scheme is very simple(and cheap) but effective.
One pc is the gateway and uses 2 nics: one conected to cable modem(3 Com) "IN" and the extra one "OUT" is linked to a 5 ports 10/100 hub.
I use the Internet Connection Sharing feature and its very simple to setup on the gateway.
All other machines(up to 5) are conected to the hub and have full broadband access, remote printing, folder sharing enabled etc...


(edit) - All "slave" pcs must have TC/IP protocol installed also(network config).
"Jazz washes away the dust of everyday life" (Art Blakey)

Home Network

Reply #10 –
Jen I don't have the same exact modem but that all work the same and my modem has a Cat-5 and USB out also. I have the modem connected to the router (with the Cat-5) and then all of my computers hooked up to the router. They are then all able to use the internet. If you need to have certain ports open (for FTP servier, some file sharing software, etc.) this is configurable with a browser that connects to the router.
Sorry, I have nothing witty to say here.

Home Network

Reply #11 –
Quote
I did a quick search to try and find a solution, and found that the internet sharing feature will not work with NTLs cable modem (Its broadband).

It does!!  That's precisely how mine is set up.

Home Network

Reply #12 –
@ TwoJ - Really?  I have no hubs or switches at present.  Can you recommend a switch?

@ LIF - I have considered that solution but don't think I can live with the fact that I have to turn on 1 PC to get internet access to the other PCs

@ flloyd - I think this route will probably be the best solution as I don't have any hubs or switches

@ john33 - It does???  I tried it once and couldn't get it to work.  Anyway, I can't use that method as I need independent internet access for each PC

Home Network

Reply #13 –
The switch at home is the netgear FS-105 which I have had no problems what-so-ever.
The reason I like using the switch is that every router I've dealt with there has always been some problems when using NAT - especially for things like file transfer like with messenger, VPN problems, netmeeting, etc. Its usually fine if you don't do anything too wierd but that has been my experience. With the switch you don't have to deal with any NAT so you've got a direct connection and then you can open/close ports through software.

At work we use cascaded 32 port switches for most terminals and 8 port for the smaller networks, all from netgear.

But as I said you might be better off getting the router/switch combo if your unsure if just a switch will do.

Home Network

Reply #14 –
Quote
@ wynlyndd - The lowest price I have found in the UK for the LinkSys BEFSR41 is £49GBP ($79.98USD).  Sadly I have no Xboxes to connect to the network.  Also, how good is the wireless version, is it as fast as the LinkSys BEFSR41 and how much does it cost, please tell me more about it, or a link/model number would be great!

I only mentioned the xboxes to show other people reading the thread that anything you have that has an ethernet port like the xbox, replayTV, TivoNet, those odd LG refridgerators with the LCD on the doors, etc can be connected.

I have the Linksys BEFW11S4 (version 2, they are at 3.2 now). The lowest price I have seen here has been about 80USD w/shipping (which I guess converts to 48.99GBP but YMMV due to shipping, tariffs, VAT, etc). Very good. Pretty quick. Easy to set up.
"Droplets of Yes and No, in an ocean of Maybe"

Home Network

Reply #15 –
@Jen
Unless you have alot of knowhow I would recommend against setting up any PC as a gateway sys. Even under Windows it is not the easiest thing to do and maintain. Though your P2 ~200Mhz would be perfect.

I also have the linksys switch/broadband router. The very first version of it. Paid nearly $200 USD for it almost 3 years ago. But it has the latest firmware version.  The thing has worked fine with approximatly 3 different cable modems. To those claiming you can get by with just a switch, well that depends on your ISP. If you rely on a switch then each station on the switch must have a real IP or ISP allocated IP. At one time my ISP allowed us 4 and when I hooked up 5 one would never get an IP. Which is what got me to get the linksys device in the first place. NAT(Network Address Translation) or a gateway PC employing NAT are your only hope if your ISP does not give you addequate IPs. The linksys device is relatively easy to use and configure. And it provides other benefits as well. It has a built in firewall. And a hardware one at that. They are generally much better than any software firewall and will cloak your network from outside. Sure it will slightly impair your ablility to partake in illegal file trading networks. But the added security is well worth it. Simply being on broadband makes you a bigger target. And having multiple exposed systems bigger still. Do yourself a favor. The linksys is a very good investment for a home user. You will not regret it.

Home Network

Reply #16 –
It's practically idiot proof if you're using WinXP.

Home Network

Reply #17 –
@ Neo Neko -  I was not planning on doing that because the PII 233 is not very quiet, so I think I will be ordering the router soon

@ layer3maniac - What if you have a mixture of PCs with Windows 2k and xp?

I think I should thank everyone again for all the info, so thanks everyone

Home Network

Reply #18 –
Quote
@ Neo Neko -  I was not planning on doing that because the PII 233 is not very quiet, so I think I will be ordering the router soon

@ layer3maniac - What if you have a mixture of PCs with Windows 2k and xp?

I think I should thank everyone again for all the info, so thanks everyone

I was suggesting you get the router. The PII would be sufficient. But it is also alot of work. The Linksys is a solid product. As to the routers interoperability with Win2K and XP. Since they are practically the same thing it is the same for both. In fact since the thing is configured via browser it does not much matter what OS you use. Be it XP, 2000, ME, 98/SE, 95/OSR2, 3.11, DOS, Linux, QNX, BSD, MacOS, BeOS, or Amiga Workbench.
 

Home Network

Reply #19 –
Quote
@ pOwder - Excellent, you have the LinkSys BEFSR41.  How have you got it connected up.  Is your cable modem connected directly to the router and all PCs connected to the router.  Does this give you independent internet connection on all PCs?

I have the cable modem connected to the router's WAN port with a Cat5 cable.  I have my computer connected to port 1 on the router.  The Cat5 cable extends from port 1 on the router to the Network Interface Card on my PC.  I have the family computer connected to port 2 on the router.  Same as above, the cable extends from port 2 on the router, down the hallway and into the family room, to the Network Interface Card on the rear of the computer.

All PCs and the cable modem are connected to the router.

Yes, this allows me to share the internet connection between the two PC's using 1 IP address.

The router has a web interface that you can access using your web browser.  The web interface allows you to change the router's settings.  In the address bar, just type in "192.168.1.1".  This is the default IP address of the router and will pull up the web interface.  It will prompt you for a username / password.  Leave the username blank, and type in the default password found in the documentation.  By default, the router is set up as a DHCP server and will assign each of your PC's an IP address.  This will usually be 192.168.1.100, 192.168.1.101, 192.168.1.102, and on.  Now that they are all on the same network, the router will use the Network Address Translation (NAT) to direct the internet traffic to the right PC using the same IP address your ISP assigns.  Thus, all your PC's are connected to the internet.

Hope this helps.

Edit:  Don't forget to update the firmware.

Home Network

Reply #20 –
i just set the adsl connection sharing a few weeks ago with the d-link 604 router (around 70$ here),

the features are:
- independant access
- mapping to virtual servers (web, ftp, and some other servers)
- support  for dyndns build into router itself (since i have dynamic ip, it will avtomagically update to the new ip when it changes..)

no bigger problems so far, and i did use standard cables that were allready in the walls (no special utp stuff), sharing is working fine as well (1 computer is xp, another win98, i just ran the network wizard on xp and then the floppy that was made on 98).

(p.s. oh and i was told that the mac address of the original connection has to be copied to the router 1st to make things work.)
PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung

Home Network

Reply #21 –
Quote
(p.s. oh and i was told that the mac address of the original connection has to be copied to the router 1st to make things work.)

Most NIC's have the mac address hardwired or burned in so you couldn't change that.  BUT...  the cable modem should be happy with the mac address of the router if you reset it (the modem)  Mine (RCA cable modem) has a recessed reset
button that you push with a pen point or paper clip.  The other way to reset is
to uplug it for a minute. NOTE: the "power switch" does not really power it off
or reset it. 

The Linksys works pretty well.  I think the default settings are generally ok, but
check using te web interface to make sure that you can't do administratiive functions from the outside, and change the default admin password.  If you forget
the password you can reset it, but some guy over the network can't.

I don't remember the port numbers (probably they are listed in the manual),
but generally you will want to disable the ones used for  MS file sharing from going to the outside network.  This is one of the "firewall" functions of the router.

If you think you will need a wireless lan soon, then it would be cheaper to get
a combined router/wifi access point, otherwise you can wait and add an access point with whatever the latest version is when you need it.

edit:
Quote
Also, how good is the wireless version, is it as fast as the LinkSys BEFSR41 and how much does it cost, please tell me more about it, or a link/model number would be great!


My setup is the normal router plus access point, but the wireless version just combines those functions.  The wireless will be slower, but it also has regular ethernet ports which should run full speed (100 megabit).  I have 802.11b (not the fastest anymore) which is fast enough to keep up with a cable modem or streaming audio, but noticeably slower than ethernet for moving big files between computers.

best direct info on models would be from www.linksys.com

Home Network

Reply #22 –
I seem to be having a problem with my internet connection.  I have not yet got the router but will be soon.  I thought I should try connecting the cable modem to the ethernet card to see if it works, but it doesn't.  Does anyone know how to get the terayon NTL cable modem to work with the ethernet card (LNE100TX Linksys)?

Home Network

Reply #23 –
Quote
I seem to be having a problem with my internet connection.  I have not yet got the router but will be soon.  I thought I should try connecting the cable modem to the ethernet card to see if it works, but it doesn't.  Does anyone know how to get the terayon NTL cable modem to work with the ethernet card (LNE100TX Linksys)?

NTL only update roughly every 6 hours, on my connection it's around 6.00am, etc. Disconnect the cable connection from the modem and try to leave it unconnected for about 7-8 hours. When you re-connect, it will pick up OK. Very disconcerting until you learn that!!

Home Network

Reply #24 –
Does it need to be unplugged at the same time, while the cable connection is disconnected from the modem.

So basically, I currently have the cable modem connected to my PC using the usb cable, if I want to connect the cable modem to the PC through an ethernet card, I have to disconnect the cable connection from the cable modem (not sure if I should unplug it from the mains) and leave it for some hours to reset, then I re-attach the cable connection to the modem, plug in the cat-5 cable into the modem, and then into the ethernet card, and finally plug the modem into the mains to give it power.

Is that right?